stroker kits on this engine are a waste (save the Toda thread)

[D K]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

If the head cannot flow the extra air required to fill up the new volume then you will see less torque than that up at the top of the rev range.

If the head flows well, then yeah.

If I was dealing with a car that had a head flow issue from 5% more dislacement, i woukd drive that car off a cliff and claim insurance

[2much]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Why do you care if I care? I invite you to take your own advice.

I am not the one writing the anti-NA manifesto to everyone...

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by D K

If I was dealing with a car that had a head flow issue from 5% more dislacement, i woukd drive that car off a cliff and claim insurance

[rice_classic]

Race series that don't allow FI aren't "rare", they're actually more common than ones that do, especially in racing categories on the club level.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by D K

Not really

I prequalified by sayin all things being equal.

So 5% more displacement = 5% more torque y/n?

Idk, from what ive gathered, the heavier the forged pistons the greater the tq. Im sure not all forged pistons are the same weight for this engine, obviously the larger the stroke the more tq as well.

[cdrazic93]

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

the heavier the forged pistons the greater the tq.

This. Best to get heaviest pistons.

Also get heaviest rods, flywheel and driveshaft for more torque.

[cdrazic93]

The downside is that if you still want to rev to the same speed, you need some beefy ass wrist pins.

[wbradley]

I'm no expert, but here's how I see it. If you increase displacement 10% you will see na gains of probably <10%. But increasing stroke should make more difference where it counts most, torque. So lets say for argument sake, > 10% torque increase. Now if at the same time your internals are now forged and compression lowered with the stroker kit and you are going FI, you can maximize the effectiveness of the FI to the limits or your clutch, axle, drive shaft, cooling, valve flow, fueling, ignition etc.
A stroker on a small displacement is not a bang for the buck upgrade for a small displacement. But for a higher budget build it has its place in the sequence of mods to achieve huge volumetric efficiency. If you are willing to spend $20K + and want 400 HP plus it is a step in the path. By no means is it a high volume mod. BTW I like haDDes!

BTW haDDes, I think I had mentioned my company has a client in Sendai. I don'tknow if you know of a business who brings in USDM muscle cars there from California. Mostly modded out Hemi Dodge Chargers and Challengers. He also sells my product there, Future Steel Buildings. Our rep has visited there a few times and he loves it. Our distributors name is Yuta Sakurai.

[D K]

Ok so the point being that in general, you increase the displacement, you get that much increase in tq.

I wasnt talking about different pistons or all the rest of it.

Just increasing the stroke.

As the title states, is it a waste?

Given that you only pick up 4.xx% in additional TQ while screwing up the rod ratio - my opinion is that its not worth it.

Get new rods and pistons instead for proper reliability and if you have a strange desire to make more power, then port your heads.

On top of a Rotrex blower of course...

[WHITE]

@D K

Not trying to start a war here, but just want to say that it is possible to maintain a stock rod stroke ratio with a 90mm stroke...however I know this isn't for everybody becuase it would be rather expensive since your talking custom rods and custom pistons.

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by wbradley

1- The two guys on this thread from Japan are incredibly fluent in English
2-Most English speaking people on this forum aren't as fluent in English
3- How do you get >300 WHP to hook up on a 2700 lb RWD car?

@wbradley
I didn't want to participate to this thread anymore but no reasons to not answer legitimate questions, and well educated people.

I'm not Japanese, or even American, i'm French ... as for my English, it is what it is but thanks. (and indeed English speakers in Japan is a rarity)

How do you get more than 300whp to hook up ? easy answer, rubbers (big ones) and good suspensions / geometry. with RE-71R 255 all four corners it offers some grip to put the power down ... but my current setup is really flirting with the limits of grip. TWOsystems who runs a similar engine build for their race car use 265s but its not streetable, too much rub.



On the "power increase debate", the HKS stroker doesn't just offers a longer stroke but also gives a lower compression ratio when used with the adequate head gasket. That's why i said this very HKS 2.1 stroker is ideal for FI setups not N/A. Stroker 2.1 + headgasket + Vcams + Supercharger V2 and injectors and you have bloody good setup.

If you want to stay N/A better go to RUNDUCE, or TODA for sure !

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I don't know about him, but he seems schizophrenic, he keeps referring to himself as "we."

@themadscientist "we" ... the tuning scene, the morons using those kits. We know.
Seriously, drive one of these before you throw a judgement. Search for the latest time of the RUNDUCE team around the FujiSpeedway, that should tell you a litle more ... And if your Japense isn't good enough ask someone to read you some papers published, you obviously are missing some infos.

There is no more blind than the one who doesn't want to see ...

And once again, no it is not the best $ for the money, but this is true for 99% of the N/A builds, and probably is also compared to, yes, 2JS builds, or other solutions, but ... variety makes a beautiful world doesn't it ?, and its my, our, money so, can't really argue with that.

[celek]

Not sure how this saves the TODA thread when its so bias to a colossal "waste of money"
You can argue all day about how much it costs and you should just go FI for the same price but the big points to counter FI are

1: You can make 400 HP, 500 hell even 700 but if the trans does not hold it and you can not get a tire under the car for traction its pointless.

2: You can just LS swap the car for $8k

3: Some people only care about going straight and fast others use the car for different purposes.

4: I am not sure what point 4 is, I just don't know why you even give a crap if you think its pointless unless you want to be an attention whore starting a fight on the internet about whose a**hole, I mean opinion does not stink.

Im going back into my corner to eat popcorn and watch this comedy of a train wreck. If you want to see the outcome of a waste of money I invite you to my signature.

PS just paid for my HKS STROKER crank today only took 10 weeks from Japan to arrive in the US

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by celek

1: You can make 400 HP, 500 hell even 700 but if the trans does not hold it and you can not get a tire under the car for traction its pointless.

2: You can just LS swap the car for $8k

3: Some people only care about going straight and fast others use the car for different purposes.

4: I am not sure what point 4 is, I just don't know why you even give a crap if you think its pointless unless you want to be an attention whore starting a fight on the internet about whose a**hole, I mean opinion does not stink.

Soooo,
1: true, transmission can / could be an issue at some point, my build is probablym a upper limit after which, well you migh loose the tranny pretty fast. The advantage of a supercharger (hks one) over a turbo is it doesn't blast a huge torque in the low RPM range and you probably don't rev the hell out of it all the time, to transmission tends to suffer less. Still if you drive it hard, something is gonna happen at some point. RUNDUCE and others went Dog tranny for the bigger builds ... no secret there.

2: As said before, yes you can do more(different) for less ... but not everyone wants an anchor in the front of his BRZ/86/FRS (Orido san's swapped 86 is a brute, just a bloody brute, and I love it)


3: absolutely, make it the flavor you like it

4: not sure bout this one, so will just say congrats on your HKS crank and 10 weeks isn't too bad considering most of the Stroker elements are constantly in back order at the factory.