Toyota 2GR & 1GR Engines: Truck/Torque/low redline Vs Car/Power/race/high redline

[matt88]

As I'm new to understanding engines I'm trying to understand more what makes an engine an engine, particularly in the Toyota 2GR/1GR world.

Here in Australia there is an abundance of 1GR and 2GR engines. 1GR in the torque focussed, lower RPM versions for things like landcruiser, Prado FJ Cruiser etc.

Then there is the 2GR in things like the camry, lexus, even the supercharged version in the Lotus family. Problem with this one is not many examples here with longitudinal, rear wheel drive config transmissions. Sure, plenty of camry's around so engine is solved, but not many trans around...

So considering there is an absolute butt load of the 1GR around and that they have the longitudinal setup, both automatics and manuals aplenty, what arguments could be made for not using one in an 86/BRZ swap? Sure, I understand they are more torque focussed, perhaps the layout of the transmissions are more focussed towards transfer case designs for 4wd applications so this may give trans tunnel problems, however if you could get around the transmission issue, would it be too much work in making a 1GR behave in more of a higher redline, power focussed thing instead of a lower revving, torque focussed thing? 4 litres of displacement and getting redline to say 7000 - 8000 RPM and then better still hitting it with some boost might be a nice tasty result.

So what is inherent in these 1GR engine designs that make them more truck focussed and what would you need to alter to make them more rev happy, car focussed? Can I assume as simple as heads and cam? Are the blocks, cranks, rods, pistons etc largely similar and heads + cams is all it would take to totally transform its behaviour? Sure, let's assume for now that things like intake, exhaust, tune etc will all be done as well.

It would sure be nice to find an 'easy' way to get a landcruiser/FJ Cruiser/Hi lux/Prado 4 litre with matching trans on the cheap then throw say, 3 to 5K at it to dress it up with whatever is needed to transform it into a nice high revving thing.

Or am I totally missing something with this family of engines and there is no sense to dressing up a 1GR ?

[Ashikabi]

I'm not sure what the aftermarket looks like for those but I suspect you'll be spending much more than that too get your engine where you want it. Also the swap itself would be very expensive and difficult. An LS swap using off the shelf parts in an already well documented project costs about 10k minimum. I spent about $30k. The 1/2UG swap can certainly be done, you just need to understand what you're getting into.

Making the truck motor behave like the Camry motor will be tricky. You'll need a cam for sure. Intake manifold and headers will go a long way too. If you want it to spin to 8k you'll have to do now internal work which is going to cost a significant amount.

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[matt88]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

I'm not sure what the aftermarket looks like for those but I suspect you'll be spending much more than that too get your engine where you want it. Also the swap itself would be very expensive and difficult. An LS swap using off the shelf parts in an already well documented project costs about 10k minimum. I spent about $30k. The 1/2UG swap can certainly be done, you just need to understand what you're getting into.

Making the truck motor behave like the Camry motor will be tricky. You'll need a cam for sure. Intake manifold and headers will go a long way too. If you want it to spin to 8k you'll have to do now internal work which is going to cost a significant amount.

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Ashikabi, thank you for responding.

Yes, understood the logic/reasoning of an LS swap will likely give more bang for buck. Actually I'm about 70 to 80% complete on my current LS3 swap. Pretty happy with it so far!

I'm more looking at it from the angle of what is different, what is unique. I'm learning from the ls3 swap that I'm far more enjoying the creativity and problem solving and creating something that people say is impossible than necessarily just achieving the best bang for my buck.. Hell, if I wanted best bang for buck I'd probably just sell everything and get the new Nissan Z or Mustang. But that is not why I'm doing this. I'm not just trying to get power to weight ratio for certain dollar figure.

Also FYI, here in Queensland, Australia, we have a very "interesting" set of laws that state for naturally aspirated engine swaps you cannot exceed five times weight of the original car, in kilograms, in CC's of the new engine. For example I had to get my 86 weighed before I commenced my LS3 swap. It was 1280kg. Therefore 1280 x 5 = 6400 cc Max engine size. This is why I am using the 6.2 LS3 on my current swap.

For force fed, the rule is "3 times". So 1280 x 3 = 3840cc Max.

So as the 1GR/2GR family are in this 3.5 to 4L zone, this is another reason why I was thinking they could be a good candidate if I wish to go the force fed route.

The fact remains that assuming all other items will need to be done anyway (mounts, intake, exhaust, cooling, fuelling, integration and anything else) that there surely must be some elements that are common and some elements that are different between the 1GR and the 2GR, and how those things specifically differ and determine the characteristics of the engine being more truck, less car and vice versa.

I'm not approaching this from the angle of (like we see many times) the old "I've got 10k to spend, do you think I should do an engine swap?".

Understand on your comment of "internal work" but that is why I'm here asking the exact question. Are the bottom ends the same and it's the cylinders, heads and pistons that differ? Is it the cam or isn't it? Is it the valves? There could be many differences or we might actually be very surprised and find that it is actually only two or three things that need to be changed out and hey presto, truck suddenly becomes car and the rest is just the exhaust, intake, tune, injectors and anything else you regularly have to do in a good engine project anyway. Imagine if we found out it was just the cams and tune and absolutely every other part was common?

I guess I'm hoping someone who specifically knows these things about the 1GR & 2GR family might give a response with a laundry list of the actual, specific differences.

Thank you!

[gtpvette]

Cant speak to your question regarding changing the 1GR. Have you looked at the 3.6 Holden Alloytech motor?

[matt88]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

Cant speak to your question regarding changing the 1GR. Have you looked at the 3.6 Holden Alloytech motor?

I haven't really thought about that one much. But yes, the LY7 could be a good candidate. There are LFX engines available brand new here, also. You can get a brand new crate LFX and 6L50 auto for about 4500 USD delivered here in Aus.

I was starting to feel guilty about my LS3 swap and how the entire drivetrain is now basically GM (I have even installed the 8.6 inch GM/ZF IRS diff with 3.45 ratio) and wouldn't it be nice if I could get the new 86/BRZ and do a swap much more Toyota focussed. Sure, It isn't even a Toyota, its a Subaru after all, so my argument is a bit pointless. But still, something a bit more totally Japanese might be a fun challenge. 1GZ swap perhaps?

[HKz]

http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html great aussie gr build


if i wanted to keep in the fam, much rather do 1uz 86 ^^

[matt88]

Yeah that GR is close to me, so I'm sure they'd be a good source of info. I'll try sending them a message and see what comes back.

Yeah 1UZ could be fun. Might be a little harder to find though. Didn't someone do a 1UZ in New Zealand?

[gtpvette]

Originally Posted by HKz

http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html great aussie gr build


if i wanted to keep in the fam, much rather do 1uz 86 ^^

That's a clean build for sure. There are a few 1uz swaps around.

[Genomaxter]

I would love having an NA 2gr in the FRS. I love the engine and its exhaust note once modified (I have a 2015 IS350). I think the engine has plenty of torque and character to be very fun in the FRS. LS have a little too much power for my liking and the engine note is a bit lackluster.

[ACT86]

No much to add here, but I do have a 2GR engine in my NA Evora and it’s glorious. Would be a heap of fun in an 86 I’d imagine.

[matt88]

Originally Posted by ACT86

No much to add here, but I do have a 2GR engine in my NA Evora and it’s glorious. Would be a heap of fun in an 86 I’d imagine.

Lucky you!

I don't know exactly when, but I already know I'll be buying an Emira. I don't think it will be in the first year or two of production. Maybe a few years from now. That car is going to be the absolute best of the best of Lotus in petrol form. It will be an instant classic. It looks absolutely fantastic.

In the meantime a 2GR in the new 86/BRZ could be a hell of a lot of fun!

[ACT86]

I thought I had seen the 2GR into 86 done before. No idea if of any use to you, but some links below (second with pics of chosen gearbox etc).

https://performancedrive.com.au/toyo...on-video-2723/

http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html

[matt88]

Originally Posted by ACT86

I thought I had seen the 2GR into 86 done before. No idea if of any use to you, but some links below (second with pics of chosen gearbox etc).

https://performancedrive.com.au/toyo...on-video-2723/

http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html

Yeah have definitely seen this one around the web. Thanks for the links!

I tried contacting Turbofast but alas no response so far. I think this is a build in North Queensland, Cairns area.

I would definitely love to learn more about it.

It is interesting they went to four litres and then back to 3.6. I'll take a stab in the dark that they decide to put in the 4 litre crankshaft to get the extra displacement but then probably didn't see the engine hit as high a redline or rev up to a nice juicy top end that they were hoping for and as such decided to drop down to 3.6 again to achieve the more exciting top end. It is just a guess.

At least this tells me there is at least one other person who has tried the four litre idea and didn't like it in the end. My original idea was to source a land cruiser, prado, hi lux etc 4 litre 1GR as they are absolutely everywhere here and then see what changes I could undergo to make to make it more rev happy. I was hoping I could do something simple like keep the crankshaft to keep it at 4 litres, but then perhaps just swap out the cams and hey presto, after a juicy exhaust intake and tune it might be more rev happy and willing to take boost as a second stage later. However it would seem perhaps this build here is an example that the 4 litre idea may not work so easily enough.

The 2GR in the IS350 is definitely a great candidate. Already in the correct config for rear wheel drive.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by matt88

Yeah have definitely seen this one around the web. Thanks for the links!



I tried contacting Turbofast but alas no response so far. I think this is a build in North Queensland, Cairns area.



I would definitely love to learn more about it.



It is interesting they went to four litres and then back to 3.6. I'll take a stab in the dark that they decide to put in the 4 litre crankshaft to get the extra displacement but then probably didn't see the engine hit as high a redline or rev up to a nice juicy top end that they were hoping for and as such decided to drop down to 3.6 again to achieve the more exciting top end. It is just a guess.



At least this tells me there is at least one other person who has tried the four litre idea and didn't like it in the end. My original idea was to source a land cruiser, prado, hi lux etc 4 litre 1GR as they are absolutely everywhere here and then see what changes I could undergo to make to make it more rev happy. I was hoping I could do something simple like keep the crankshaft to keep it at 4 litres, but then perhaps just swap out the cams and hey presto, after a juicy exhaust intake and tune it might be more rev happy and willing to take boost as a second stage later. However it would seem perhaps this build here is an example that the 4 litre idea may not work so easily enough.



The 2GR in the IS350 is definitely a great candidate. Already in the correct config for rear wheel drive.

Can you take the transmission with the is350 engine?

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