First Suspension mod help.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

So - tell me about the benefits of the remote canister vs the "meh" 2WNR if you would On what tires, sizes, spring rates, aero setup? Because I've had nothing but great luck and lap times with them, and they damping sweep covers a dramatic range of spring rates...

I've heard similar thoughts from others, basically they don't offer enough low speed compression and enough high speed digression in the non remote versions so the curves are 'better' in the remote canister dampers they offer. The non remotes act more linearly and produce curves that can be replicated by other dampers for the same price, sometimes less.

They're still good dampers, and I know I'm averse to remote canisters but very few solutions are 'perfect' and with $3k+ on the line people like to be picky.

Also monkey does autocross, high compression at low damper speeds is prized, no aero, 245/255 200tw 'cheater tires' on 17x9, spring rates generally range from 300#-500#



Edit: it feels like mcs holds back their non remote damping to sell the remotes at higher prices since other companies can achieve more compression and more digression without canisters. And to be perfectly clear this is from the perspective of hunting for the very best shock you can get and being nitpicky, the non remotes are still good and are performing above my talent level.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Elliotw

Hello all,
I am looking into doing a suspension mod where I have some adjustablity. I have never done this type of mod before where there is an adjusting component. Last year was my first major year tracking racking up close to 500 laps during the spring/summer/fall on all stock suspension. The first adjustable mod I had in mind was either adjustable sway bars or coilovers.(something good quality as well) I went about doing some research on the forums I saw a lot of discussion talking about sway bars and how the factory setup is great and they aren't adding a lot of value from a handling perspective. This really put me off buying sway bars. So I am looking into deciding between coilovers(something nice but 1 way adjustable) or sway bars.. I don't want anything too complicated for my coilovers as it may overwhelm me in the process of dialing in the car. Hoping some of the more experience people could give me some guidance in what mod I just start with.

Driving types this BRZ will need to handle:
* 0-3 times a week on the street
* 15-20 track days a year.
* 3-8 drift days a year.

Note: a valid answer is drive more time on stock before upgrading. Dont be afraid to suggest that.

Thanks!

What tires do you use?

Best first and last chassis mod is a proper alignment.

- Andrew

[Elliotw]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

What tires do you use?

Best first and last chassis mod is a proper alignment.

- Andrew

I am ran 17x9 340 tw(Indy 500) tire last season. I have as proper of alignment I can get with the my setup. which is just front camber plates around -2.0. Those tires and camber plates I am running consistent times. I'm still leaving a lot on the table is my impression as @NoHaveMSG runs about 10 seconds faster then me with a ~200 tw tire and just suspension mods and a header at the same track. I've bought a new set of 240 tw(AdvanSport 105v) for next season. Note my car is supercharged about 275 whp. One thing is for sure I need to ride along a few times with @NoHaveMSG this year.

Elliot

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Elliotw

I am ran 17x9 340 tw(Indy 500) tire last season. I have as proper of alignment I can get with the my setup. which is just front camber plates around -2.0. Those tires and camber plates I am running consistent times. I'm still leaving a lot on the table is my impression as @NoHaveMSG runs about 10 seconds faster then me with a ~200 tw tire and just suspension mods and a header at the same track. I've bought a new set of 240 tw(AdvanSport 105v) for next season. Note my car is supercharged about 275 whp. One thing is for sure I need to ride along a few times with @NoHaveMSG this year.

Elliot

That's all great! It sounds like you've been going about this in the right way. Def encourage ride alongs with more experienced drivers and any sort of quality instruction you can get.

Swaybars aren't the devil that some make them out to be, they're just a piece of the puzzle. I would suggest developing a plan before throwing bigger bars on a car though.

Switching to the stickier tires (which it sounds like you're ready for) will make you want more roll resistance and require some tweaks to your alignment. Adding a larger front swaybar will make you faster, but may not be the change you want on it's own. A quality damper that isn't worn out would be a bigger priority. Whether that means a step up to good coilovers or replacing OEMs with fresh OEMs or Bilstein B6 or Koni Yellow is up to you. There will be a time to step up to coilovers eventually and that's usually dictated by tire choice and experience.

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Would Bilstein last long enough to warrant the price difference?

Unfortunately, no.

[NoHaveMSG]

Fourwheeldrifts on here instructs with HOD and has a BRZ.

You are welcome ride with me or vise versa anytime. I was going to jump in with you that one day but you ran out of fuel.

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've heard similar thoughts from others, basically they don't offer enough low speed compression and enough high speed digression in the non remote versions so the curves are 'better' in the remote canister dampers they offer. The non remotes act more linearly and produce curves that can be replicated by other dampers for the same price, sometimes less.

They're still good dampers, and I know I'm averse to remote canisters but very few solutions are 'perfect' and with $3k+ on the line people like to be picky.

Also monkey does autocross, high compression at low damper speeds is prized, no aero, 245/255 200tw 'cheater tires' on 17x9, spring rates generally range from 300#-500#



Edit: it feels like mcs holds back their non remote damping to sell the remotes at higher prices since other companies can achieve more compression and more digression without canisters. And to be perfectly clear this is from the perspective of hunting for the very best shock you can get and being nitpicky, the non remotes are still good and are performing above my talent level.

Okay, autocross speeds, spring rates/200tw. What Damper is he running that performs better?

Because on 225/40 x17 R7s (9" rim), 650# front, 700# rear, aggressive aero running road course - the 2WNRs are pretty dang smooth - IMO of course Having driven my car and another similar setup on JRZs with remotes, there wasn't a hill of beans difference I could discern...

[fminicooper]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Buy 2-3 more sets of stock suspension. Swap them on every 200 laps or so, because stock dampers wear out QUICK.

Spend the rest on seat time, brake pads, tires, and maintenance.

Amazing piece of information, thanks, 200 laps are nothing.
Recalculating my maintenance and mods plan.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

Okay, autocross speeds, spring rates/200tw. What Damper is he running that performs better?

Because on 225/40 x17 R7s (9" rim), 650# front, 700# rear, aggressive aero running road course - the 2WNRs are pretty dang smooth - IMO of course Having driven my car and another similar setup on JRZs with remotes, there wasn't a hill of beans difference I could discern...

iirc mcs 2wr

I've been in a 2wnr car, it rode great and put up good times.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

Amazing piece of information, thanks, 200 laps are nothing.
Recalculating my maintenance and mods plan.

More specifically, it's the rears that wear out first.

It's easy to find fresh sets of stock dampers for cheap from folks getting coilovers early on.

[Totemo_Hayai]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Would Bilstein last long enough to warrant the price difference?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unfortunately, no.

I'm not so sure about this. My racecar has Bilstein B8s because they were on my car when I bought it and I still can't afford MCS. I don't know when they were installed, but my car has just over 100k miles so it's reasonable to assume they have at least 30k miles plus a season of racing. I'm sure there are better shocks out there but for anyone that would not be able to go out to the track after buying fancy shocks the Bilsteins will be just fine.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Totemo_Hayai

I'm not so sure about this. My racecar has Bilstein B8s because they were on my car when I bought it and I still can't afford MCS. I don't know when they were installed, but my car has just over 100k miles so it's reasonable to assume they have at least 30k miles plus a season of racing. I'm sure there are better shocks out there but for anyone that would not be able to go out to the track after buying fancy shocks the Bilsteins will be just fine.

What you see if you drain the oil out of your dampers may shock you, pun intended.

Most degredation is gradual so you may not realize it until you know what signs to look for.

[Totemo_Hayai]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What you see if you drain the oil out of your dampers may shock you, pun intended.

Most degredation is gradual so you may not realize it until you know what signs to look for.

If I don't realize it others won't either. All that matters is whether or not my car is competitive and drives well, regardless of what my damper oil may or may not look like.



All high performance shocks degrade and require service.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Totemo_Hayai

If I don't realize it others won't either. All that matters is whether or not my car is competitive and drives well, regardless of what my damper oil may or may not look like.



All high performance shocks degrade and require service.

A worn damper, that you may not realize is worn, will no longer be competitive against a fresh damper.

Considering that a set of fresh OEM dampers cost less than a single tire, or a track day, let alone a competitive event, I would consider it a great best practice to make sure they're fresh.