diss7's journey of indecisiveness

[diss7]

Thought I'd start one of these, as a place to keep info in one place. I have a fb page for my project cars; buts it more of a blog than a build thread.

I'm going to update this as things come together, but I'm going to setup the first few posts as follows

1st post - this one.
2nd post - brief background and what I want from the car
3rd post - car specs (dynamic)
4th post - thoughts on engine power
5th post - thoughts on suspension
6th post - thoughts on aesthetics

Feel free to comment on anything.

[diss7]

Background

I turned 18 in 2000; in New Zealand obviously. At the time NZ was in the middle of an import frenzy, due in part because there are no locally made vehicles. At the time, there was no restriction on what could be brought in. 95% of cars came from Japan. Anything that was sold there, generally ended up here.

Before I turned 18, I'd had a couple of Hondas and an ae86. (At the time, I didn't even know what I had)

Once I started making some money I was able to afford some boost. First turbo car I bought was a GT Toyota Starlet. Fwd, lightweight, turbo. Felt substantial ally faster than the ae86! After 6 months or so, it wasn't fast any more. I'd had a street race with a Evo 2 and saw what a 4wd turbo could do. I must have one.

Over the next few years, I had quite a few 4wd turbos. Traffic light king! LOL. Did take them 1/4 mile racing as well. I had several Nissan Pulsar GTiR's, then a Toyota st205 GT4, then an Evo 3, then a version 6 Sti.

It was about 2005 when I had the sti. Was about 5 years old at the time. Comfortable, realiable, managed to get it to run a 12.9 quarter with just a decat; no other mods. When I had that car, a mate had an s14. At the time drifting hadnt hit NZ, so rwd was almost ignored, as you could launch them like a 4wd. After going for a few rides in this s14, I was hooked. Couldn't believe how easy it was to slide. Seeing as that was basically all I was doing in the sti to keep it interesting.

Looked at making the sti rwd, but was a bit of an unknown. So sold it for really good money ($16k) as they were still really popular. Bought an rps13 with a silvia nose, a sil80. Had been done up by a Japanese guy. Bb t28, 2 way, coilovers, swaybars, castor arms. I didn't know what half that stuff did, but after I test drove it and nearly lost it, I had to buy it. It felt a lot quicker than the sti.

Got a bit of hate at the time (again rwd had not caught on) but I loved it.
Around this time I was now financially able to have a fun car and a daily. Started with another ae86 as a daily.

From then till now I've owned the rps13, an s14, two s15s and a range of dailys. In the last 3 years I went away from silvias and started buying old Toyotas. Found a JDM te27 (which I still have) and had a ke20 corolla with a sr20det. Also bought another ae86 (my 3rd) which I planned on keeping near stock; but now its a track only car.

When the new 86 was announced I wasn't impressed. The look, the power, the fact it wasn't really a Toyota. I was in the market for a new daily, and had bought a few new cars in the last few years. A Yaris, a Hilux, a Lexus IS250. I'd actually sworn I wouldn't get another new car because the depreciation sucked. I was considering getting a 996 gt3. Loved them. About $80k. But I didn't because it wouldn't look good to my customers/staff/family. This is when I started looking at the 86 in more depth.

Overtime, I warmed to it. What really attracted me to it, was that it was just a normal car, not a wanker porsche.

In NZ we have 5 different models of 86. (Lucky eh) I was almost about to confirm on a TRD spec 86, (the highest model) but had a last minute change of heart. The TRD unit was $65k. The gt86 was $48k. The base 86 was $42k.

When I looked at the differences, the money didnt stack up. The TRD unit had no more performance, other than a quad tipped muffler. It had updated suspension, but it was fairly weak. The TRD kit, I wasn't a fan of. Even comparing the base 86 to the gt86; the 86 had a better interior (no gawdy carbon) smaller wheels, but they looked better; but I knew I'd replace them anyway. The gt86 had marginally better brakes and dual zone climate a/c (base has ac but not climate) I would have preferred those two options, but they sure as hell weren't worth $6k to me.

That's when it dawned on me. Why don't I buy the base, and try and make a better car than the TRD spec. I'd use the money I'd saved (about $22k) as te budget. I thought this was a wicked idea and a real challenge. It's ray to just blindly throw money at a car over time; but having to work to a fixed budget for the whole build would be a real test! So, that's what I decided to do, and went and ordered a base 86!

Knowing that $22k would disappear quickly, I knew I had to prioritise areas for improvement. And more so, not overspend in an area for little gain. I didn't want to replace items just because it was the cool thing to do.

So, I waited till the car arrived, and decided what needed improvement. And started researching different items, their positives and negatives, and their cost.

I've expanded on my opinions of three main areas (engine, suspension, aesthetics) in the following posts.

Basically what I want is to retain the car comfortable daily sports car. Able to hold its own around twisty roads, responsive, basically just fun to drive! It's not going to be a track car, not even a little. I have the ae86 for that. Building a track car isn't all that hard IMO. This challenge I've set myself has turned out to be much more of a challenge than I thought.

Anyway, that's my story! Not too long winded I hope

[diss7]

Car specs

2013 Toyota 86. NZDM base model 86
(Unless I've noted a change, then assume its stock)

Engine
HKS air intake duct
TRD Japan air filter element
Stock airbox
Bullet twin screw supercharger w/ intercooler
Robispec radiator / oil cooler
Toda pulley kit
Cusco oil filter (TRD wasn't magnetic, and HKS was pink)
Greddy magnetic sump plug
Full stock exhaust

Drivetrain
TRD Japan flywheel
Stock clutch
TRD Japan mechanical 2 way LSD
Whiteline positive shifter insert

Wheels
(depends on what I'm doing, wheels are like shoes to me ha ha)
16x6.5 +48 stock rims
17x8 +35 Volk Racing se37k in bronze
17x7.5 +48 Volk Racing te37 in bronze
17x8 +35 Desmond Regamaster in gunmetal
18x9 don't want to say till they arrive

Tyres
Various 215/45/17s that don't last long
205/40/17 Achilles 123 semi slicks
Will use 225/40/18 Federal 595 SS when new rims arrive

Brakes
TRD pads F&R
TRD steel lines all round
TRD brake fluid

Suspension
Shopping for coilovers now
Whiteline adjustable front sway bar
Whiteline camber bolts
Whiteline adjustable extra heavy duty rear sway bar
Whiteline end links and bushings to suit swaybars

Aesthetics
Stock interior
Toms rear tail lights
TRD rear lip spoiler

[diss7]

Thoughts on engine

When I test drove the car, it was slow. I wasn't so fussed. Making a car faster (especially an over engineered JDM) isn't hard. I'd done it 10 times before. Making a car look and handle and feel nice is much harder, the 86 did that well.

At the time I ordered my 86, my ae86 was still a street car. More so, it was 2.0l NA. I was quite happy with its performance on the street. It was only when I'd went to the track I was disappointed so went turbo. Anyway, sidetracking.

The ae86 had a 3sge blacktop beams, from an is200/altezza. With very little effort, it made 200whp. ITBs, headers, tune. That's all. I was convinced I could do the same to the new 86. And, I thought that seeing the motor was 10years more advanced and higher compression, maybe 230-250whp!

Here's my beams dyno....



On to the torque dip. You know, I get sick of hearing people complain about it. Here's my take on it. The torque dip exists, because it my eyes they tuned two power bands into the car. A low end 1500-3500 band and a 5000+ band. Now, to me, the new 86 had more torque up until 3000rpm , than the beams did. It was better for a daily. It's obvious to me Toyota would have preferred no torque dip, but there's clearly an underlying issue. To me, the dip is exaggerated due to the extra I believe it has below 3000rpm.

I needed to decide how I was going to make power. In the 6 months it took for my car to arrive, I saw loads of people struggling to get the 86 to 200whp; and that was on high reading American dynos. Guys were needing to go ethanol (which isn't yet available on pump in the South Island of NZ) just to get there, again on high reading US dynos. About this time, stock cars starting getting dyno'd in NZ; 130-135whp ��. I knew that the only way I'd pickup 50% power with NA, the motor would have to have been severely 'corked' from factory; I could already see that US guys weren't getting anywhere near 50% more power.

Knowing that even 200whp was going to be borderline fun, seeing as the 86 weighs 300kg more than the ae86, I started looking at motor swaps. 1uzfe, 2grfse, ls1, beams, I even considering buying a whole late model sti and using it as a parts car. All avenues costed out were well over $20k (well the beams wasn't, as I could've put in my old ae86 motor, as I rebuilt another beams for boost). And there were lots of unknowns (which I saw as blank cheques) mainly around the ecu.

I didn't want to spend half my budget chasing 200whp. So I had to go FI.

Part of what I'm doing is to keep the car OEM looking, to some degree. Like an AMG tuned merc sort of thing. Engine bay appearance was a big factor here.

So many kits just looked 'too fast too furious' for what I wanted. I knew I didn't want lag (no one does) I knew the power I wanted, 250whp. More would be a bonus.

Short listed kits were AVO, Greddy, Bullet. AVO I was quite keen on. It was stealth, performed like I wanted, it was well priced. The turbo spec I'd recognised as very similar to a t518z; which was a turbo I'd run on my s15; it was a serious thumper of a turbo. A couple of things shy'd me away. The price started creeping up, it went from under $4k to mid $4k, apparently because of ceramic coating. More so than that, I just could get o er the Chinese copy turbo; and how it was clearly a rip off of the t518z.

The trust/greddy kit I also looked at. But it was borderline too flashy. I liked the short pipin route. No bov though, and it was expensive!

The bullet s/c I was always interested in, but never enough to get serious, as I still sort of didnt 'get it'. I understood how it worked, but it was different. I'd never had an s/c before.

I was still undecided on which way to go. I decided to at least get some other parts that I viewed as necessary, but that would still work with any FI kit. Robispec cooling solution was what I decided on to solve the piss weak cooling this car comes with. Also wanted pulleys and flywheel. Not prepared to get cheap brand junk and bolt it to my crank, I was about to commit to Toda items for both; but at the last minute I was presented a sharp price on the newly released TRD flywheel, so got that and the Toda pulleys.

I go to Australia often for work. I went over a few weeks ago, and was planning on bringing a set of coilovers back. On the morning of my flight, I got a call to say they wouldn't be ready. Annoyed at how they'd handled the situation (and that I'd already paid for the extra luggage) I rang Bullet (who were only an hour from where I was) and went and test drove their demo. Very impressed with how it drove. It wasn't zomg fast, it felt NA. It felt 230-240whp. It felt what I wanted (but was never realistically ever going to) achieve NA. I also thought to myself that the tune felt very safe. A more aggressive tune, my flywheel and pulleys, and this thing would get even better. I was surprised how little it lit the rears, couldn't worked it out until I pulled over; oh it's got 265 semi slicks on it. Oh, and some big ass heavy rota's, that won't be helping either.

I went back, had a wee chat with Tom @ Bullet, and 15mins later I was loading 30kgs of boxes into my mates car.

The thing that sold it for me with the s/c was how oem it felt and looked. It was exactly what I wanted. It also acted just like an NA, which also tells me it'll react the same way with headers etc

The kit is the best option for me. It's too easy to sit and try and chase another 50whp than you need. Also, I'm not convinced at this motors ability at holding more than 300whp. (I realise many people are running more, but running 400whp in a street car with an effectively brand new motor, and after 6 months it hasn't blown so you claim it's holding it - that's not proof to me.)

You'll note I have talked about the exhaust. That's because I think it's a waste of money. $2000 cat back for 2whp (or something else that is insignificant) is not something Ill be doing.

Headers and overpipe, possibly. These show good gains in NA setups. But I haven't seen a JDM set that appeal to me. (I'm not a JDM fan boy, well maybe a little. But its just far cheaper for me to buy JDM then US)

Tomei has some headers they've announced. Piping is 60mm though. Toda I know have some coming, and they're goin to be designed for their stroker package; I think this will be a good option for me, considering s/c.

Back on exhaust, I don't want to needlessly increase the cars volume, out of respect to my neighbours, and I don't want the attention from the 5-0. I've yet to find a suitable exhaust that's got the right combination of super quiet, and cost. Plus I can't choose one anyway till I've decided on headers. Also, I'm not 100% about getting an exhaust anyway. Headers + full exhaust will be $3k. $3k for 10whp and a whole lot of noise, when I've just bought 70whp for $5k. Doesn't add up.

One last statement. If I could justify spending saying $20k on the motor, what would I have put in? 2grfse. 3.5l toyota/Lexus NA goodness. Little bit heavier than boxer, but not really once you've added an FI kit to the boxer. If I wasn't such a Toyota fan boy, I'd put an sti motor in, boost the stock turbo, 350whp and call it a day. But I am a toyota fan boy, so I would put a toyota motor in it; even though its really a Subaru.

[diss7]

Thoughts on suspension

I'm not looking to improve handling. Want to keep it somewhat comfortable, and just lower it.

If anything, I'm intentionally making my car handle worse, to make it more chuckable.

I want coils to lower the car, and to have height adjustability. Not rock hard crazy high spring rates, for track racing.

My car will almost certainly never see the track. I have a dedicated track car for that.

Here's my blasphemous plans for my suspension.

More low maybe 30mm front 35mm back, but retain as much comfort / suspension travel as possible. Stock top hats to keep 'clanging' away.
Whiteline camber bolts, to hopefully get 2 degree f camber
Rear camber should be about the same
Whiteline adjustable front swaybar
Whiteline extra heavy duty adjustable rear swaybar
I've already got the whiteline gear coming.

Depending on what alignment shows at desired height, may need to throw in some front lower arms for more caster, and some arms if toe is not near zero.

Basically, I'm addressing thre issues I have with stock setup. Height, front rollover outside tyre, weak rear sway. Keeping the important things adjustable do can fine tune.

Yes I'm intentionally making car oversteer easier. Yes I'm sure that's what I want.

If cheap teins are indeed so bad, I will replace. But at this stage, I don't think the difference between cheap teins and expensive anything else is doing anything (that I want out of the car) other than lighten my wallet.

[diss7]

Thoughts on aesthetics

My thoughts here are realitively brief.

I don't like body kits in general. Especially ones that look added on - eg MOST side skirts.

I have seen some lip kits that look decent, they hadd a front lip, pretty much a lip to the sideskirt, and a difuser at the back. That would be the extent I would go to if I added one.

I don't mind the TRD rear bumper. But the cost + the muffler required to make the look work, thats about the same cost as a supercharger!

Rear tail lights. Hate them. With a passion. It reminds me of an EG Civic sedan where some ricer has put clear tail lights in.
Not many nice tail lights out there atm. There's some gawdy looking ones, that look like they've just bent up a flourescent tube inside the housing. The best IMO are the genuine Toms lights. They've actually designed the light to be similar to a Lexus item. Nice.

The tail lights were higher on my importance list than everything else!

Stock wheels are poo. They almost always are. I maintain the 16" wheels are better than the 17's. They just look like a modern take on a watanabe, in a very OEM conservative way.

Since I have a black car, wheel colours that I find work well are bronze, gold, gunmetal. Black wheels look okay on any other car, but on black its too much IMO. Plus, black wheels, you quite often lose the character of the wheel.

Stock car definitely needs a spoiler. Def not a fan of high spoilers. Lip spoilers are the bees knees and finish the shape nicely. There was a spoiler I quite liked, 5 axis I believe. But the shipping made it cost $300 more than I could get a genuine TRD for, which looks equally as good, so went with that.

I believe the stock body is an ideal shape. There could be a kit in the future that takes my eye, but at the moment no. Kit would need to look like it was always there. Front bumper can definitely be improved on, the curves it has especially around the DRL/Fog lights are not quite right IMO. The rear bumper, again could be improved on. Not sure on the massive plastic insert in the bumper, its almost trying to be a rip off difuser. But at the same time, if it were all plain, it would look wrong. Again haven't found a bumper that is on the same wave length as me yet.
Side skirts, as I said, look awful when they're just 'tacked on' to the car.

Another way I look at a body kit, is in the most part that are anti-funtion. Heres how a lot of people mod their car. Big wheels, now car is really high. Coilovers to reduce wheel gap. Car is still high because of big wheels. So put kit on to give illusion of being lower. Better setup would be say 17's, coilovers to lower car, car doesnt need body kit because not only does it look low to ground, it actually is.

Interior, well I got the plain black interior from factory, so I've already addressed what I think was wrong with the interior. Silver and faux carbon? No. Seats are okay. Some nice Brides would go a treat. Nice wide cabin too, so wouldn't be too much of a hassle. Not a priority for me though.

You can see that I believe the car needed a lot less aesthetic improvement than TRD did. Body kit or supercharger? I made my choice.

TL;DR. Taillights needed. Wheels needed. Wheel gap needs attention.

Stock body is fine. Rear lip finishes it off. Front lip and side skirt lips can look good, but not a priority for me.

Bright coloured / cheap wheels bad. Big heavy wide rotas for 'stance yo, it looks siiik' I dislike you greatly.

[lazyluka]

I think you need more pictures of all the wheel setups :P

Very interesting to read your detailed point of view instead of just the brief snippets I read on Facebook from time to time.

[GuerillaRacing]

Very very nice buildup... love the details.

So which is your dedicated track car?

[RallySport Direct]

Very cool build/thread idea. Of course I am wanting to see more

Thanks,
Rick

[diss7]

Originally Posted by GuerillaRacing

Very very nice buildup... love the details.

So which is your dedicated track car?

The ae86.

It has a 3sge blacktop beams, then I've rebuilt the bottom end on. CP Pistons, Eagle rods. OEM 3S crank is bullet proof just tidied it up. Head is also excellent, although still tidied up. OEM Titanium valves dont like boost, so replaced them with steel ones.

Had it on the dyno last month and when VVTI starting engaging, the valves hit the pistons. CP hadn't made the recesses to spec.

At least all the muck around and new parts/labour was worn by them.

Heres a pic of us getting it on the dyno. Ignore the crud radiator, my new one got damaged in shipping, so had to quickly adapt this one.

[Teo]

Originally Posted by diss7

Engine
HKS air intake duct
TRD Japan air filter element
Stock airbox

Nice build!!

I have a question about HKS intake duct, is this one ? http://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/produc...uct/index.html

Together with TRD air filter, did you notice significant improvement?

[diss7]

Originally Posted by Teo

Nice build!!

I have a question about HKS intake duct, is this one ? http://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/produc...uct/index.html

Together with TRD air filter, did you notice significant improvement?

I haven't put either in yet. Have the filter still in the box. The duct I'm waiting on. Only a few weeks away though hopefully.



Finally gotten around to putting some items in on Friday night. Only had a few hours, but these items have made it feel like its a new/different car all over again.

I put in..
Whiteline Camber Bolts
Whiteline Positive Shifter bushing
Tein Stree Advance Coillovers
Toms taillights

I'll write up a more thorough review of these tomorrow. But here's some pics I took today.

I'm in love with dat ass..

[armythug]

Nice write-up man. How do you like the Teins? Did you get the desired drop you were after? I cant see. so much black Looks good though

[diss7]

Originally Posted by armythug

Nice write-up man. How do you like the Teins? Did you get the desired drop you were after? I cant see. so much black Looks good though

I'll put a long winded reply, as others will want to know more.


So went with the tein street advance kit. I went round and round in circles what to buy, went on and off the teins. Ended up with them as they are obvioulsy height adjustable, damper adjustable, not Chinese, stock uppers, spring rates I wanted (5kg F and R) and most importantly local warranty. Autolign in Christchurch gave me a deal I couldn't pass up.

Install.

Took some measurements first. 670mm to front fender lip. 678mm to rear.

Fairly straight forward. Stock ones out. Assemble new units. (No English instructions, but had pictures) Swap stock tops over.
Didn't get a lot of progress shots.



















Thoughts during install.
Above you can see the adjustability range. Yellow is actual, green is recommended. Grey shows 20mm, what its preset at. There's my first gripe, it wasn't preset at all. Seeing that I wanted about 30mm drop, wound all units up 20mm from full low. Up and down a couple of times on the hoist to get it even.

In the pic above, this is fresh off the hoist. After driving around the block, it settled another 8mm. 24 hours later it hasn't settled anymore.

Heights now are 640mm to front fender, 645mm to rear. I like the height, its significantly better than stock, but I would like to go 10mm less.

Now this is my second but major gripe with this kit. Rear units are listed as being adjustable to 50mm, and they are, but at about 32mm (18mm above full low) the spring starts to become uncaptive, on the hoist obviously. Where I am set to, it's not uncaptive, but with no load on the rear, I can use my body weight to pull the spring to make it uncaptive. Real world, at my height it's no issue. But the lower you went beyond where I am, the more uncaptive its going to become. Not all that happy about this. I'll be having a moan about it to Autolign to pass on to Tein that it should be noted that this occurs at this point.

Driving impressions
Dampers on full soft. Height as per above. Excellent street setup. Took it down earthquake damages roads, roadworks, Speed bumps, no scraping or noise whatsoever. Very impressed. Is firmer, but definitely very liveable. Front spring rate I think I would prefer 4kg. Corners nicely. Rear is more loose. Not so much from the suspension itself, but the camber that came with it in the rear has affected traction, I don't mind this. Also dampers at full soft is too soft for springs. I'll take maybe 5 clicks from full soft, I think this may be better.

Would I buy these again...
To be honest, they're exactly what I suspected. They handle okay, I could say they're 'great, car handles like its on rails' and compares to stock it does. Bit I've driven on $5k suspension, and this isn't it. I paid $50 more than a set of BC's, and got a local warranty. Build quality appears good. Time will tell. Comfortable enough. Again could say its as comfortable as stock, its not. But I'm not cringing before every little bump. They're definitely mild, not uber firm; which is what I wanted. I'm happy the car is lower, but I'm not sure these will stay in the car for more than 12 months.

Also put some Whiteline Camber bolts in. Oh lawdy, finally some front camber. Car turns in much nicer now.

Whiteline Shifter bushing has about 80% solved my notchyness gear changes. Still not completely gone, but I still have the stock fill fluid in there. No noises.

Definitely recommend both the Whiteline products.

Couple more pics ..









Offset puppy says "more effort required"