FR-S/86/BRZ as my next car?

[The Red One]

Originally Posted by Sjej

very reassuring. i love the idea of that. id also love to mention sliding in the snow. i love to slide the edge lol but its not the easiest thing to kick out the rear tires in fwd with no handbrake. thats just another reason i wanted the car, the rear wheel drive.

Sliding in the snow with any vehicle, what a joy when it’s being done voluntarily.
Just stay away from the curbs hiding under the new snow …
FWD drifter club here too as I forgot long ago to grow up.

Originally Posted by Sjej

it sounds like an amazing car for the cheap price, and the videos ive seen of a brz on autocross just make me want to go get the car now. i dont know how practical the car would be for road trips, but im sure occasional out of state road trips wouldnt be bad

If you keep it relatively stock (not any aggressive suspension mods or droning exhausts)
It makes for a great road trip car. I use mine for some cross country tripping’s and find
it to be a good at that as there are other great roads to be found off the interstates to explore…
Just have to use the available space efficiently when packing. Eg: there is a load of space
between the seats when the back seat is down, enough to hide a laptop, bulky coats, less used small or fragile items.
I travel with a full size electric cooler and camping equipment as well and so far managed ok.

As others have said make sure the regular service maintenance was done.
2 sets of wheels if you will be using it in winter is ideal.

I had some reservations about Subaru dependability before I bought mine.
Reading up here before my purchase and getting intimate with a BRZ in my
entourage my 40 yrs of buying just Hondas terminated and have no regrets.

If you have any autocross areas close by you could ask if you could be a passenger in one
(bring a helmet if you have one or they sometimes have some to borrow)
to see the limits these cars can be pushed, quite the eye opener if you never done that before!

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Sjej

so give it two years, how do you think it'll look? because that's around the time i plan to start looking. i dont want awfully high mileage (70k max) and yeah i'll pay a bit more if i have to, i dont really need anything crazy.

lol, no one anticipated values would skyrocket the way they did during covid. so no one really knows. we all know the bottom has to fall out at some point, but it's mostly to do with when new vehicles are more easily available...

it really depends on a whole lot of world events much larger than any individual country at this point.

Originally Posted by Sjej

whats the highest you'd go? I have 22" on my edge right now, although it's an SUV and just for looks. dont think i'd put even 20" on a brz lol


but if i can afford, i definitely will get two sets of tires. i dont think steelies + snow tires would be too expensive, especially when they shouldnt really wear down, theyre not being used much besides for snow driving. right? ive never actually owned a set of snow tires.

i wouldn't go higher than 18", my preference is 16, while the stock wheels are 17...

snow tires, you can expect about $2k in total upfront costs(wheels, tires, mounting, balancing, install-if you don't do it yourself), and snow tires are only useful to about half tread. after that, they turn to all-season levels of grip.

i stopped using my set specifically because i'm in the city areas. if the roads are bad enough that snow tires are needed, they're shutting main roads down and it's illegal to drive around. and by the time it's legally allowed to drive around again, they've cleared and salted the roads to the point that they're bone dry, and snow tires aren't needed for other than the cold temperatures. so my snow tires were really only useful about 5-6 total days out of the entire 5 month snow season.

as i said, i already buy some of the best performing all-seasons, which tends to put me at a higher performance level than most traffic already. the main argument is that one wants a tire that can outperform the driver at any given time. but chicagoland has zero vehicle inspections, meaning that half the cars on the road are running summer tires, or bald tires. so just simply watching my all season treads and knowing my own limits makes me more competent in the snow than the other drivers...

Originally Posted by Sjej

very reassuring. i love the idea of that. id also love to mention sliding in the snow. i love to slide the edge lol but its not the easiest thing to kick out the rear tires in fwd with no handbrake. thats just another reason i wanted the car, the rear wheel drive.



it sounds like an amazing car for the cheap price, and the videos ive seen of a brz on autocross just make me want to go get the car now. i dont know how practical the car would be for road trips, but im sure occasional out of state road trips wouldnt be bad

the only complaint i've got for road trips is the space for stuff, but the car is excellent for road tripping. back before tail of the dragon went off the charts on popularity, i used to drive down there every fall for a week. i'd do somewhere near 1500 miles over the course of a week, 800 miles there/back, and the rest bombing through that 11 mile stretch...

during covid, i was going stir crazy and everyone was off the roads, i was driving 400 miles round trip to wisconsin for 'dinner' every weekend...

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by soundman98

if you're worried about mpg, honestly a high-revving sports car is likely the worst possible option.

i get around 25 cruising on the highway, around 10-15 in the city. but i don't shift till the rev limiter beeps!

...

but after the oem tires wore out, i switched to all season tires. bf good wrench comp 2 a/s. they're slightly stickier than the oem tires, a little less noisy, but less than $200/tire! realistically, they're 7/10's of the snow tires, and about 11/10's of the oem tires in the summer. there's arguments to be made in either way on multiple tires, or 1 really good tire. i choose to stick with the all seasons and not change tires all the time. the snow tires took up residence in my garage.

My experience is different on two things.

1. Mpg cruising has been 28-32 for me. Low 20s around town.

2. I don't think those BFGs are good in the snow at all. Granted, last time I checked mine were ~4 years old, but had plenty of tread left. I have had better luck with Continental DWS on prior cars if looking for an all season to deal with snow.

[soundman98]

i refer you to my comment on how they handle snow around me. i really haven't driven them in deep snow because the locals won't allow it.

[Sjej]

Originally Posted by The Red One

Sliding in the snow with any vehicle, what a joy when it’s being done voluntarily.
Just stay away from the curbs hiding under the new snow …
FWD drifter club here too as I forgot long ago to grow up.


If you keep it relatively stock (not any aggressive suspension mods or droning exhausts)
It makes for a great road trip car. I use mine for some cross country tripping’s and find
it to be a good at that as there are other great roads to be found off the interstates to explore…
Just have to use the available space efficiently when packing. Eg: there is a load of space
between the seats when the back seat is down, enough to hide a laptop, bulky coats, less used small or fragile items.
I travel with a full size electric cooler and camping equipment as well and so far managed ok.

As others have said make sure the regular service maintenance was done.
2 sets of wheels if you will be using it in winter is ideal.

I had some reservations about Subaru dependability before I bought mine.
Reading up here before my purchase and getting intimate with a BRZ in my
entourage my 40 yrs of buying just Hondas terminated and have no regrets.

If you have any autocross areas close by you could ask if you could be a passenger in one
(bring a helmet if you have one or they sometimes have some to borrow)
to see the limits these cars can be pushed, quite the eye opener if you never done that before!

i love that all, although i dont plan to go wild on it. maybe some upgraded suspension, tires, e85, intake/exhaust and not much else besides visual, so its good to know i can take it to colorado when i go every other year lol because it definitely deserves to see those roads


and i do have one or two autocross area in my city, the rest are scattered around the state. i wouldnt mind driving there

[Sjej]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i wouldn't go higher than 18", my preference is 16, while the stock wheels are 17...

snow tires, you can expect about $2k in total upfront costs(wheels, tires, mounting, balancing, install-if you don't do it yourself), and snow tires are only useful to about half tread. after that, they turn to all-season levels of grip.

i stopped using my set specifically because i'm in the city areas. if the roads are bad enough that snow tires are needed, they're shutting main roads down and it's illegal to drive around. and by the time it's legally allowed to drive around again, they've cleared and salted the roads to the point that they're bone dry, and snow tires aren't needed for other than the cold temperatures. so my snow tires were really only useful about 5-6 total days out of the entire 5 month snow season.

as i said, i already buy some of the best performing all-seasons, which tends to put me at a higher performance level than most traffic already. the main argument is that one wants a tire that can outperform the driver at any given time. but chicagoland has zero vehicle inspections, meaning that half the cars on the road are running summer tires, or bald tires. so just simply watching my all season treads and knowing my own limits makes me more competent in the snow than the other drivers...

the tires are definitely going to be something i'll have to decide on.because id like some summer tires/performance tires but i do also have snow to worry about. then again, its not anything scary, i just drive slow lol and ive been fine

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by Sjej

very reassuring. i love the idea of that. id also love to mention sliding in the snow. i love to slide the edge lol but its not the easiest thing to kick out the rear tires in fwd with no handbrake. thats just another reason i wanted the car, the rear wheel drive.

it sounds like an amazing car for the cheap price, and the videos ive seen of a brz on autocross just make me want to go get the car now. i dont know how practical the car would be for road trips, but im sure occasional out of state road trips wouldnt be bad

This car is quite fun in the snow, another reason to have dedicated summer and winter tires


I've taken the car on several road trips and had no complaints. Although the trunk itself is small, the backseat area and its ability to fold down actually allows it to hold more stuff than you'd expect.

[Sjej]

Originally Posted by NLSP

This car is quite fun in the snow, another reason to have dedicated summer and winter tires


I've taken the car on several road trips and had no complaints. Although the trunk itself is small, the backseat area and its ability to fold down actually allows it to hold more stuff than you'd expect.

what about the sound? will i be able to have conversation in the car, or is it loud? people say the lack of sound deadening makes it a pain to go on road trips

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Sjej

what about the sound? will i be able to have conversation in the car, or is it loud? people say the lack of sound deadening makes it a pain to go on road trips

Theres alot of exaggeration in regards to this car. Some are legit complaints but they are made out to be worse than it really is.

1.) Lack of power and torque dip.
Yes the dip is there, yes you CAN feel it IF you put the car in any position where its most noticeable (like up a hill in third gear, and your in the 3-4k RPM range).
You dont really feel it accelerating from a stop...mainly cuz you just blow right past the dip spot. If you're just cruising around town modestly you're not pushing the car hard at all so even a Toyota Yaris feels fine keeping up with traffic...so power doesnt matter. IF you are hardcore autocrossing or doing some kind of sporting race, you are keeping the revs up cuz thats where the power is. And if you're going up a hill you are downshifting to the gear where the power is most appropriate, either dropping 1 or 2 gears down.
The other thing is lots of people come from really high powered or turbocharged cars. This car's engine does NOT act like any of them. A Turbocharged car gives you like 90% of the power at low RPM (due to turbo bosst). A high powered car...just has a lot of power available THIS car is a small displacement high revving engine, it'll feel just like any low cost econobox if you drive it around town. You really have to put your foot down to extract the power because all of its power is on the high end of the RPM range (so at 5k RPM to 7400RPM redline, is where the real power is felt). Not alot of people are actually comfortable revving the shit out of their cars so they dont push it. But that's how you have to drive this car to get the max out of it, otherwise its just going to feel like a corolla or some non turbocharged small engine econobox.

2.) Noise and build quality. The thing is built to an economy car standard (which is why its so cheap to begin with) and its pretty in line with that class. IT does get loud on the highway, but not really any louder than any other econobox i've driven. Its got some cheap feeling plastics in some areas, and some soft touch material in other spots (the cheap hard plastics dont feel all that different from any other econobox plastic to me, and the soft touch is used in most of the common touch point areas). It aint no BMW or Lexus (more use of soft touch plastics, but hard plastics are used in the same areas, like the center console and lower door)....and it isnt supposed to be. Its pretty comparable to a Scion iM or Corolla (my previous cars)

3.) Space. ALot of space complaints really depends on how tall you are. The trunk is small, the rear seats are small (but it has them). I'm not a tall person so i can actually make the rear seats usable for me and my family, just barely. If you're 6 feet tall forget using it as a people space....it gets pretty tight. Its also got a single folddown back which they really made good use of the shape. Flat with the trunk, and the opening is very wide and almost perfectly rectangular. The shape of the cargo area is what makes the car pretty interesting from a utility standpoint, its very...square/rectangular without many wierd jigs and jogs found in other cars. The shape makes it better than you'd think.

4.) Tech. This car just doesnt have anything more than the basics. Par for the course at time of release. Dont expect any driver aids cuz it just doesnt have any (the GR86 does though). The audio system is so-so at best, I think rear camera came standard in 2015 or 2016, no android auto/apple carplay (That came in the 2020 86, and i think a few years earlier with the BRZ). That's pretty much it. The Audio system is a double DIN size so you can swap it out for an aftermarket one if you so choose.

5.) Winter drives. Depending on where you live i wouldnt use all seasons. I live in Canada so our winters are much more harsher than most of the States. Using winter tires here (16" winters on steel wheels. My OEM wheels are 18"....and i dont think i'd go bigger than that either). Throttle control is key for winter driving and driving to the conditions. The rear end is pretty light on these cars and its fairly easy to fishtail. Ground clearance becomes more of an issue since these cars are so low. If you live in an area where snow accumulates quite a bit you might have a hard time getting around.

[Sjej]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Theres alot of exaggeration in regards to this car. Some are legit complaints but they are made out to be worse than it really is.

1.) Lack of power and torque dip.
Yes the dip is there, yes you CAN feel it IF you put the car in any position where its most noticeable (like up a hill in third gear, and your in the 3-4k RPM range).
You dont really feel it accelerating from a stop...mainly cuz you just blow right past the dip spot. If you're just cruising around town modestly you're not pushing the car hard at all so even a Toyota Yaris feels fine keeping up with traffic...so power doesnt matter. IF you are hardcore autocrossing or doing some kind of sporting race, you are keeping the revs up cuz thats where the power is. And if you're going up a hill you are downshifting to the gear where the power is most appropriate, either dropping 1 or 2 gears down.
The other thing is lots of people come from really high powered or turbocharged cars. This car's engine does NOT act like any of them. A Turbocharged car gives you like 90% of the power at low RPM (due to turbo bosst). A high powered car...just has a lot of power available THIS car is a small displacement high revving engine, it'll feel just like any low cost econobox if you drive it around town. You really have to put your foot down to extract the power because all of its power is on the high end of the RPM range (so at 5k RPM to 7400RPM redline, is where the real power is felt). Not alot of people are actually comfortable revving the shit out of their cars so they dont push it. But that's how you have to drive this car to get the max out of it, otherwise its just going to feel like a corolla or some non turbocharged small engine econobox.

2.) Noise and build quality. The thing is built to an economy car standard (which is why its so cheap to begin with) and its pretty in line with that class. IT does get loud on the highway, but not really any louder than any other econobox i've driven. Its got some cheap feeling plastics in some areas, and some soft touch material in other spots (the cheap hard plastics dont feel all that different from any other econobox plastic to me, and the soft touch is used in most of the common touch point areas). It aint no BMW or Lexus (more use of soft touch plastics, but hard plastics are used in the same areas, like the center console and lower door)....and it isnt supposed to be. Its pretty comparable to a Scion iM or Corolla (my previous cars)

3.) Space. ALot of space complaints really depends on how tall you are. The trunk is small, the rear seats are small (but it has them). I'm not a tall person so i can actually make the rear seats usable for me and my family, just barely. If you're 6 feet tall forget using it as a people space....it gets pretty tight. Its also got a single folddown back which they really made good use of the shape. Flat with the trunk, and the opening is very wide and almost perfectly rectangular. The shape of the cargo area is what makes the car pretty interesting from a utility standpoint, its very...square/rectangular without many wierd jigs and jogs found in other cars. The shape makes it better than you'd think.

4.) Tech. This car just doesnt have anything more than the basics. Par for the course at time of release. Dont expect any driver aids cuz it just doesnt have any (the GR86 does though). The audio system is so-so at best, I think rear camera came standard in 2015 or 2016, no android auto/apple carplay (That came in the 2020 86, and i think a few years earlier with the BRZ). That's pretty much it. The Audio system is a double DIN size so you can swap it out for an aftermarket one if you so choose.

5.) Winter drives. Depending on where you live i wouldnt use all seasons. I live in Canada so our winters are much more harsher than most of the States. Using winter tires here (16" winters on steel wheels. My OEM wheels are 18"....and i dont think i'd go bigger than that either). Throttle control is key for winter driving and driving to the conditions. The rear end is pretty light on these cars and its fairly easy to fishtail. Ground clearance becomes more of an issue since these cars are so low. If you live in an area where snow accumulates quite a bit you might have a hard time getting around.

Everything so far has got me hooked on this car. It's just annoying the hate from it by scat pack and mustang boys. Then when you bring up the argument of "it's not a drag car" they'll still find some way to hate. But you can't have anything nice without hate. Get a Cayman and you'll still get hate. It seems perfect for my uses, and I don't need too much space. The so-called downsides you list are the same "downsides" i have on my edge and i personally don't care for them. Even with FWD, the car has all-seasons and still slides around when the roads get slippery.


But, as long as i can reliably modify the car, beat on it and still also be able to daily drive it, it's all I need, and thats why I'm so set on getting this car. A hellcat may go fast in a straight line, but you won't have to baby it to keep traction going on the off-ramp, a mustang may be fast, but it doesn't get the 20-30 mpg everyone is talking about, none of these are cheap and most of all none of them give the same feel as a life-size go kart.


I've also learned to stay away from the 2013's yes or no? I heard they have the most issues. Paying extra is fine for the reliability that'll come with it, so I really don't care about that.


One more worry... this engine does not look easy to work on lol

[DarkPira7e]

The work you need to do to the engine in its normal life span is incredibly simple to get to, it doesn't get much easier than this. I have driven this car multiple winters with 16" wheels and snow tires, I far prefer RWD to FWD, and this car has a beautifully light rear end to dance with. The cabin space is small, and you'll notice it is very fast to heat and defrost. Extremely comfortable for road trips, you can fit into tight parking spaces and there's plenty of room in the car for normal things.

I won't comment on the 2013 thing

[soundman98]

2013's are fine, with the stipulation that if the valve spring recall was performed, it was performed at least 30k miles beforehand.

it's really in your benefit to get as late model as you can swing. they made incremental improvements every few years to the chassis and components. a 2020 model has a much stiffer chassis, and a more stout engine due to all of those small changes. 2016 was a mid-model refresh that they applied a lot of chassis updates, i want to say there was a second update as a 'last hurrah' around 2019-2020.

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by Sjej

what about the sound? will i be able to have conversation in the car, or is it loud? people say the lack of sound deadening makes it a pain to go on road trips

In stock form, you can definitely have a conversation in the car. I think an obnoxious aftermarket exhaust has a bigger impact on the noise factor vs the lack of sound deadening.

Originally Posted by Sjej

Everything so far has got me hooked on this car. It's just annoying the hate from it by scat pack and mustang boys. Then when you bring up the argument of "it's not a drag car" they'll still find some way to hate. But you can't have anything nice without hate. Get a Cayman and you'll still get hate. It seems perfect for my uses, and I don't need too much space. The so-called downsides you list are the same "downsides" i have on my edge and i personally don't care for them. Even with FWD, the car has all-seasons and still slides around when the roads get slippery.

But, as long as i can reliably modify the car, beat on it and still also be able to daily drive it, it's all I need, and thats why I'm so set on getting this car. A hellcat may go fast in a straight line, but you won't have to baby it to keep traction going on the off-ramp, a mustang may be fast, but it doesn't get the 20-30 mpg everyone is talking about, none of these are cheap and most of all none of them give the same feel as a life-size go kart.

I've also learned to stay away from the 2013's yes or no? I heard they have the most issues. Paying extra is fine for the reliability that'll come with it, so I really don't care about that.

One more worry... this engine does not look easy to work on lol

There will be haters no matter what you drive because everyone has different tastes, preferences and priorities. So the most important thing is that YOU love your car. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. At the end of the day, it's YOU that's driving it and living with it. Try not to get hung up on trying to impress people and just enjoy the car on your own terms.

If you like the go-kart type of cars, you are on the right track (no pun intended). I've driven a Hellcat and Mustang GT and their handling dynamics feel more like a family sedan in comparison.

Here's a fun read about an FR-S owner who traded in for a Mustang GT and regretted it: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67100

If it were me, I'd stay away from the 2013's for peace of mind; get the latest year you can afford and with the most maintenance history.

[Sjej]

Originally Posted by NLSP

In stock form, you can definitely have a conversation in the car. I think an obnoxious aftermarket exhaust has a bigger impact on the noise factor vs the lack of sound deadening.




There will be haters no matter what you drive because everyone has different tastes, preferences and priorities. So the most important thing is that YOU love your car. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. At the end of the day, it's YOU that's driving it and living with it. Try not to get hung up on trying to impress people and just enjoy the car on your own terms.

If you like the go-kart type of cars, you are on the right track (no pun intended). I've driven a Hellcat and Mustang GT and their handling dynamics feel more like a family sedan in comparison.

Here's a fun read about an FR-S owner who traded in for a Mustang GT and regretted it: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67100

If it were me, I'd stay away from the 2013's for peace of mind; get the latest year you can afford and with the most maintenance history.

Yeah man, I've realized that they only do it to protect their ego lol.I've never seen a guy in a porsche or lambo disrespect a brz like hellcat owners would. I personally don't care about beating others in anything, only if doing autocross. So there's no worry about losing drag races or street races because i dont even enjoy them


i hate the boat-feeling of the challengers. if i wanted that, id stick with the ford edges and get an ST and save myself money. from what i hear the brz feels planted with no body roll, seats that keep you in, and a very low to the ground feeling. thats what i want.



and is it worth getting the carfax for a car im planning on buying?