SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[markw]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

I've taken a look at how much adjustment can be had from the top hats, and from what I see there is only about a millimeter of a adjustment. The top hat bolt's threaded diameter measures out to be about 7.8mm and the upper mount hole to be about 9.7mm. That would give you less than 1mm of possible adjustment on the upper mount. On the MCSs I could only get about -1.4 degrees per side with everything maxed out. When I was on the Koni inserts and stock springs, it was about -1.5 per side (I think due to the shocks sagged).

Is it possible that either:

A) The TRD lowering spring with Koni's cause a huge amount of sag and lower the front more than other shocks, thus causing some possible camber gain (something I did not notice in particular with other cars at Spring Nationals which supposedly were on Koni)

B) The portion of the Koni shaft that goes through the upper mount has a smaller diameter than stock. I know the stock inserts had this issue and Koni sent out collars to remedy the issue, as the play could lead to damage.

C) Extreme leverage applied to the upper mounts has deform the upper mount holes on the chassis and provided more than the 1mm of adjustment. (Not accusing anyone of any illegal mods, mind you)

D) Alignment measurements are not accurate

E) Koni full replacement unit's mounting holes are not in the same LOCATION as OEM

-2.5 degrees on a stock car is pretty amazing. Even cars with lowering coilovers do not achieve that amount of camber without using aftermarket alignment bolts or aftermarket tophats

I'm thinking old equipment at the local shop I use. I've got an alignment setup here, but I need to get my garage cleared out for a level floor, and I'll double check it. The wheel doesn't look tipped in any more than it did with the crash bolts and stock struts.

The struts fit nice in the top hats, so that's not an issue, and while the car was sideswiped it was before I did the camber bolts and it was a dent in the fender which didn't change the alignment.

My first thought was the bolt hole sizes were different on the Koni's but ksconekiller pulled his apart and measured, and while they're bigger, it was like .05mm which isn't much and could be a measurement error.

The drop I'm seeing from the TRD springs is about 3/4".

I was looking at Micheal Heinitz's car next to mine Saturday when we were tweaking his setup, and his front camber is WAYYY more than mine, but he said he's only at 3 degrees. Damn, now I want to check my camber again with a digital gauge to see where it's at.

Mark

[markw]

Originally Posted by ryan t

ive been reading this thread and thinking of trying cs. the set up im thinking of is 225/45 re71r on stock wheels,camber bolts, and trd springs. should i go with trd sways or just the strano front bar? is this starting set up that far off?

Here's my thoughts. Get the full TRD package, it's very well setup. You can run stock shocks with it, or go with some off the shelf Koni's. The car will handle extremely well with those RE71R's and camber bolts + alignment. 1/8 out in front and 1/8 in in the rear. There are a few cars setup like this and doing very well at the national level.

The other thing is, if you need a bigger rear bar, you have to buy the pair as they don't sell them separately. So even if you get the strano bar and decide you need a stiffer rear bar, you're going to have a strano or TRD front bar sitting in your garage.

Mark

[YawMomentRacing]

My video from the Mineral Wells ProSolo

Left:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajZJ5mMTJMI"]2015 Mineral Wells ProSolo Left Side - Dave Ogburn C-Street FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

Right:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9PMnVN7dYs"]2015 Mineral Wells ProSolo Right Side - Dave Ogburn C-Street FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

[YawMomentRacing]

Originally Posted by chucky12012

Congrats to Dave on another Pro Solo win this weekend at Mineral Wells and holding off those RX-8's. Fantastic event with long and fast courses that were difficult to get just right. Below are my fastest left and right course runs from the weekend. Did I mention it was hot...

Good job this past weekend...and thanks!

[SeanRTR]

Dave, impressive win on a course against the RX8's that looked like it clearly required 3rd gear, and then a second gear down shift. Well done. I think even my tall tires would have put me in third on that course. You can see the RX8 with an edge at the start from your right course video too.
Manfred's good 60' times on the Rival-S tires have me wondering about a different setup myself. I can't tell if the Rival-S are getting more grip off the line, or if they're just getting more grip because they're 245 width monsters.
Thinking of 215/45/16 Rival S's wrapped on the $100 ea 16x7 +48 16lbs Sparco wheels on close out..... I'm kind of glad the tires are backordered though, because I need to stop spending money.

[qoncept]

The camber issue isn't anything you should or even could protest. OEM replacements are OEM replacements and there's no way a protest against unmodified Konis is going to be upheld. It's just a bummer for those of us that can't get the camber, along with being unable to run the TRD springs (presumably - I've haven't been around much and haven't seen any firm evidence that they're better). In an amateur sport that won't ever make you any money I don't see much point in nitpicking. Just go have fun.

[SeanRTR]

Wilmington Pro Solo, Sunday afternoon runs.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyqd3Zef0lw"]Sean Grogan 2015 Wilmington Spring Pro Solo Sunday C-Street - YouTube[/ame]
Couldn't quite make up all the time to catch Harvey, but on a longer course I think I'd be right there. He was killing me heads up off the line when we were paired Saturday afternoon runs.
Ended up 3rd, just over half a second from the lead, out of ten cars.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by qoncept

The camber issue isn't anything you should or even could protest. OEM replacements are OEM replacements and there's no way a protest against unmodified Konis is going to be upheld. It's just a bummer for those of us that can't get the camber, along with being unable to run the TRD springs (presumably - I've haven't been around much and haven't seen any firm evidence that they're better). In an amateur sport that won't ever make you any money I don't see much point in nitpicking. Just go have fun.

While no one is talking protest here...you should go take a look at the alignment specs others are getting in the "Suspension" section of this forum and see what combination of parts is required to hit over -2.5 degrees of front camber. You will find guys reporting "maxed" camber with lowering springs and Whiteline alignment bolts yet still under -2.0 degrees.

If you cannot achieve anywhere close to that with OEM struts, but you can with the Koni "OEM replacements" then it is obvious that the two parts are not equal and thus would not be legal for use in Street class.

I am beginning to think that either some people are getting inaccurate readings, or the production quality at Koni is subpar. I hope it is the just poor alignment equipment, though.

If someone can achieve an additional -1.0 degree of camber by using the Koni struts, then something is off. No suger coating it.

[AustinTX]

Buy Koni's

[Wahoo5]

The Mineral Wells courses look so much better and longer than Wilmington. Vivek comes through again.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

I can't tell if the Rival-S are getting more grip off the line, or if they're just getting more grip because they're 245 width monsters.

It's a bit of both the compound and the width IMO. And the pinching - being mushy as hell I'm sure helps at the launch since the sidewalls have a bit of drag radial attitude to them...

I could spin the wheels at Lincoln and still pull 2.2. From a launching perspective these are better than the (fairly wide) 225 Goodyear R comps I ran two years ago.

The two biggest concerns I have with the 245s: insane shoulder wear and they run cooler than 225s by 10-15 degrees F. In cold conditions it will be very hard to work enough heat into them as a single driver in the standard 3-run format.

[bslate3]

Congrats to Dave on the win at the Mineral Wells Pro Solo. Also great job to Chris on 3rd place! Nice driving!

Here's my videos. Not nearly as fast as y'all but I'll catch up eventual!

Right side, I over cooked the last 180 and came out at a turtle's pace.

Left side could have been faster bit wasn't, boo!

Driving tips appreciated. I know I was sawing at the wheel a lot. I gotta be smoother on my inputs.

[markw]

Originally Posted by bslate3

Congrats to Dave on the win at the Mineral Wells Pro Solo. Also great job to Chris on 3rd place! Nice driving!

Here's my videos. Not nearly as fast as y'all but I'll catch up eventual!

Right side, I over cooked the last 180 and came out at a turtle's pace.

Left side could have been faster bit wasn't, boo!

Driving tips appreciated. I know I was sawing at the wheel a lot. I gotta be smoother on my inputs.

It just takes time, keep looking ahead. 1:19 on that first video looks like you weren't looking where you needed to look, it's almost like you knew you screwed it up and looked at that inside cone instead of where the car was going.

Have you done any of the driving schools, outside of that quickie evo school they do before nationals? I did the phase 1 and phase 2 back in March and figured out a few things, which has helped immensely. Went from mid pack to top 3 at my last few events. Haven't gotten a first yet, but last event I was second, and I've paxed in San Diego as high as 9th out of 171. San Diego is a tough region, but we have good drivers that are always willing to give feedback.

Here's my 2nd place run from the last San Diego local event, 11 cars in class, 1 novice, 2nd-6th covered by .8 seconds. 1st place went to the local alien.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmiSGF5pRwg"]mark 2nd place run 5 31 15 - YouTube[/ame]

Mark

[bslate3]

I haven't done any EVO schools. I have a couple super fast local drivers coach me a lot, that helps a lot.

I want to do an EVO school but there are none anywhere near me.

Thanks for the tips.