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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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11-15-2023, 08:23 PM | #57 | |
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I'm curious as to your thoughts on that idea? (and anyone else who'd like to chime in, feel free)
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The Following User Says Thank You to Tatsu333 For This Useful Post: | blsfrs (11-15-2023) |
11-15-2023, 10:40 PM | #58 | |
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So, I'm seeing a rough trend of a 10psi drop per 10* temperature increase. If the trend continues, at 260* the psi is in the 30's. At 270* the redline pressure could be in the 20's, etc. Combine that with loss of pressure in right hand turns and you could have a problem. I would like to not need a cooler but my gut is saying something different. I'm open to any solid data that says my gut is wrong. |
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11-16-2023, 08:13 AM | #59 | |
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11-16-2023, 08:46 AM | #60 | |||
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This info, combined with tracking the car and seeing oil temp always stabilize just below 275F and never continuing to rise, and knowledge that good synthetic oils are good for over 300F *sump* temps, I decided I didn't need one. Anyway here's some data (link to thread: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820 ) to show how much pressure you get going from 20wt to 30wt with no cooler at ~275F (blue and yellow) , and then what happens with a cooler at 250F (green). Note that pressure is about *the same* with 30wt oil either without the cooler at 275F, or *with* oil cooler at 250F. I.e. the pressure drop due to this cooler totally offsets whatever pressure gain there should have been due to the oil running thicker at lower temp. Answering the thread title, yes, "need" for an oil cooler for these cars is massively overstated/overblown. I'd go beyond that even and say that they more often cause problems than solve any. My 0.02! Last edited by ZDan; 11-16-2023 at 09:00 AM. |
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11-16-2023, 11:09 AM | #61 | |
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The best you can do is get your own data and do what gives you piece of mind. Which from what I can tell you're already doing. What works for some people doesn't work for others. Like you I got myself an oil pressure setup and so far at cooler temps it seems fine. If I see pressure under say 45/40 at higher temps I am going to get a proper cooler(running a oem setup at the moment) Anyway do you
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The Following User Says Thank You to autoracer86 For This Useful Post: | blsfrs (11-16-2023) |
11-16-2023, 10:02 PM | #62 | |
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That said, we do have evidence (see above post) that an oil cooler itself can have enough pressure drop that there is zero benefit as far as "higher pressure". Hotter 5w30 oil at 275F without an oil cooler is at about the same pressure as 5w30 oil at 250F with an oil cooler. My advice: don't bother with an oil cooler, these cars at stock power output just don't need them, and they add failure points. Engines *have been lost* due to leaky plumbing of aftermarket oil coolers! Also you are adding a fire risk. It's just not worth it when oil temps are *well* within reasonable range for good synthetic. |
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11-19-2023, 12:36 PM | #63 | |
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I guess it gets down to one's comfort level. At redline, am I comfortable at 270* and oil psi in the 30's? Or, do I want to risk the down sides of a cooler and maintain 230* and 50 psi? |
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11-19-2023, 03:22 PM | #64 |
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Or do you want to run appropriate weight oil for the type of driving you’re doing?
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11-20-2023, 01:59 PM | #65 | |
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Oil Temp: 176*F Idle Pressure: 7.3psi or more 6000 rpm: 73psi or more I assume that the Subaru engineers are aware that oil pressure drops as temps rise, and have spec'd the oil system appropriately. We know a good synthetic oil can withstand higher then 300*F sump temperatures. Oil pressure is not what prevents metal on metal contact in bearings, oil shear performs that job. Personally, I overfill .5-1 qt and maintain oil temps below about 270. However, the 270 limit is mostly because if oil temps are getting that hot, there are a million other parts on the car that are also getting very very hot, and I'm trying to protect the entire car, ESPECIALLY the components whose temperature I do not know. I'd stop trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
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11-20-2023, 03:26 PM | #67 | |
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Did you mean 276*? What oil are you running? And, at that temperature you have 73 psi at 6k rpm? Where is your sensor reading and is it reading correctly? From what you guys say, high temp and lower pressure will work, but is it optimal? Last edited by blsfrs; 11-20-2023 at 04:21 PM. |
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11-20-2023, 04:23 PM | #68 | |
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Those are the factory service manual specifications, so it is 176*F. I don't know what "optimal" oil temperature and pressure is. I only know what the factory engineers designed for mixed with 20 years of motorsports experience of what "works". That's all I need to stay on track with a reliable machine.
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11-20-2023, 04:55 PM | #69 |
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1. I'm pretty sure that temperature is not so good for oil or the engine.
2. I'm pretty sure that I don't want to keep changing my oil for rare track events. 3. I'm pretty sure that we don't have a scientific data sample. 4. I'm pretty sure that on a 100+ degree day at the track, especially with e85, the car can use every bit of cooling it can get. Those on asphalt temps are going to be even higher. With an oil cooler, even on 5-30, I'm not worried because I can get the heat out.
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11-20-2023, 05:00 PM | #70 |
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Does the JDM car have a different oiling system than the USDM model?
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