Lowering Springs or Coilovers?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shiumai

When the Swift springs were installed without LCAs, left rear camber was -2.13° and right was -1.65°.

Yeah, that's a bit off. For sure I'd try it at the track before investing in LCAs. Also LCAs cost me 40 lb. of ballast for car classification, so not just a monetary consideration...

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

@ZDan after RCE install.
Before alignment
-1.44 FL, -1.16 FR
-1.32 RL, -1.96 RR

After alignment
-1.8 front
-1.6 rear
Exact same both sides.

To be fair i have no idea my true before because I installed springs, camber bolts, and LCA before going in.

Yeah, again that's a fair amount off in back...

ANYway, I'm much more of a stickler on toe and have generally found asymmetrical camber within reason to not be that big of a deal on the street or at the track. At -1.32RL/-1.96RR, yeah I'd wanna do something about that tho...

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by ZDan

ANYway, I'm much more of a stickler on toe and have generally found asymmetrical camber within reason to not be that big of a deal on the street or at the track. At -1.32RL/-1.96RR, yeah I'd wanna do something about that tho...

100% toe being off is no fun. Worse then camber being off. But proper camber can make a big difference too.
But to me if I’m doing springs and getting an alignment already even if just for proper toe, whats another 235$ for full camber adjustment front and rear to get it all done same time in one go.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

But to me if I’m doing springs and getting an alignment already even if just for proper toe, whats another 235$ for full camber adjustment front and rear to get it all done same time in one go.

Yeah, I hear you. But if the camber is in a reasonable range, for most people it's probably not worth the extra $$$.

For the BRZ and the Cayman I addressed front camber which is woefully lacking in both stock, and left the rear alone as lower springs gave some decent camber for track work and both were within .25 degrees left/right, well within my comfort range.

[strat61caster]

@86MLR great advice for a track/autox newb, unnecessary for cruising to the local burger joint.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@86MLR great advice for a track/autox newb, unnecessary for cruising to the local burger joint.

Yeah nah, I disagree.

Having your suspension, and therefore your brakes, working well is more important on the street, with other cars, kids, animals and every other hazard you don't find on a track.

Incorrect spring rates, dampening, travel, and alignment settings can, and does effect stopping distances.

Lowered springs, with high spring rates, on OEM, or, not matched dampers is engineering poor handling into a car.

People get their look, at the sacrifice of handling and braking, which to me, is insane.

Opinions may vary, just like stopping distances and handling.

[strat61caster]

Except for the part where on course the car is faster with the TRD/Eibach lowering springs which help the car handle better sure,

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4586

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4247

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4244

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4645

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Except for the part where on course the car is faster with the TRD/Eibach lowering springs which help the car handle better sure,

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4586

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4247

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4244

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4645

I thought we were discussing a setup to drive to your local burger joint?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Incorrect spring rates, dampening, travel, and alignment settings can, and does effect stopping distances.

There is no "correct" spring rate. The #1 thing that affects stopping distance is tires. Lowering springs won't affect stopping distances hugely and given lower c.g. and less overloading of front tires, should slightly improve stopping distances.

Lowered springs, with high spring rates, on OEM, or, not matched dampers is engineering poor handling into a car.

A given set of dampers can deal with a quite wide range of spring rates. In fact you only would need to change damping by the square root of spring rate, so if spring rates are 25% stiffer (typical for lowering springs) you'd only need about 12% greater damping to have the same %age critical damping. But anyway the stock dampers can already deal with total spring rates much higher than stock spring rates as the bump stops are contributing a lot of stiffness a lot of the time.


I can promise you that the overall handling performance of my car was greatly improved with the lowering springs I am on and braking did not suffer at all as near as I can tell...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I thought we were discussing a setup to drive to your local burger joint?

We are and per your argument the springs and dampers that handle better will be better for street use because they are safer by allowing the driver more opportunity to avoid accidents.

The lowering springs handle better than the factory springs therefore are superior per your argument.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

We are and per your argument the springs and dampers that handle better will be better for street use because they are safer by allowing the driver more opportunity to avoid accidents.

The lowering springs handle better than the factory springs therefore are superior per your argument.

Yeah nah, I disagree

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Looks the same but very different inside. IIRC Meister uses a standard digressive piston (montube) where they enlarged the ports for more flow. Flex-Z is a twin tube like the kW. There are going to be noticeable difference in damping just based on this one difference, nevermind the valving.

Do you still have the Meisters on the car?

I see. Yep I still have them on

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I see. Yep I still have them on

What exactly don't you like about them? What is it doing that you want to change?

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by solidONE

What exactly don't you like about them? What is it doing that you want to change?

I’m getting the floaty sensation and I think at 5K front and rear they’re too soft. Also during constant radius(ish) turns like on-ramps, the rear end will start to move side to side. Adjusting the rebound towards firm helps that somewhat, but then the ride quality becomes brutal. I then have to lower tire pressure to compensate for that.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I’m getting the floaty sensation and I think at 5K front and rear they’re too soft. Also during constant radius(ish) turns like on-ramps, the rear end will start to move side to side. Adjusting the rebound towards firm helps that somewhat, but then the ride quality becomes brutal. I then have to lower tire pressure to compensate for that.

Well, for $1100 you really cannot expect it to do everything well. They certainly can with some development. If they are comfortable, adjustable and are an improvement from factory in both comfort and performance then I think you get enough value for your money.

Then again, I wouldnt know since I've not tried them on the 86. OTOH a friend of mine in an ND, helped Meister develop the valving on their current ND application, and it is pretty good, let me say that. So there is indication the hardware is capable, but not as dialed in. Quick easy solution righ now would be to increase stiffness a bit. Maybe some sway bars if you dont have them. Or see if you can borrow some 6K springs and see how they work with those.


Edit: @StraightOuttaCanadaEh Also another trick I learn from adjusting motorcycle shocks. Preload can be increased to reduce static sag in the rear. This will give you a bit more bump travel that you seem to need with the 5K spring. Give that a whirl maybe, before you go buying stuff. You might not even have to remove them to do this adjustment. A lot of times people forget that especially with suspension and alignment you need to spend some time to optimize you setup for the best setting. Ride height, rake, alignment, damping. Throw some adjusable sway bars in there and now you have even more range of adjustment. Seems you've at least played with the knob. (lol "Knob") Maybe there are other things you haven't tried?