2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

An interesting interview with Tada-san on the Supra came out today in Jalopnik. Once of the best tidbits released had nothing to do with the Supra, but the 86:



There was also quite a bit of discussion as to why it was a joint venture. Tada theorizes that if it was a purely Toyota car, it would've taken 2+ more years, a new factory and have a price tag over $100,000. Of course, to those who know the industry, this is no surprise.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

Probably a case of confirmation bias on my part since he pretty much says everything I have for the last 4 years but that would appear to be an actual interview with real quotes.
My usual "interview" skepticism alarms did not go off at all but most certainly will when all the other sites take this info and twist it around into something totally different.
TOYOTA BOSS SAYS THEY ARE NOT MAKING IC ENGINES ANYMORE.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by qcbaker

Interested to see how "what would you change about the 86" threads will play out now that Tada is on record as saying the boxer configuration is NOT for low CoG and just because its short enough to allow the car to be a 2+2.

So the whole Boxer usage was all PR drivel.

Pretty much like everything about that car.

It just worked out so perfectly to PR speak all the 86 references and the reasoning for certain things. (Boxer engine because low CoG and heritage use in the sports 800, the 86 is an homage to the old AE86 corolla, the 86x86 bore/stroke throwback to the 86 moniker, 86 here and there mumbo jumbo, design throwback to the 2000GT, etc). It was nothing more than a modern take on the 90's Japanese sports cars and they 86'd the ever living crap out of it because they could.

I would also wager a guess, at the time a 100% Toyota 86 would definitely prove his theory correct. However I wonder if his theory NOW is different with TNGA underpinning everything? I mean if he were to create a next gen 86 NOW, the chassis should be there, the engines are available (maybe not a sport tuned one, but they have a potent one in the dynamic force 2.5, and the 2.0 don't seem to be a slouch either). I bet that lopped off a ton of the R&D and would make it easier to get the point of entry where the 86 currently is.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Probably a case of confirmation bias on my part since he pretty much says everything I have for the last 4 years but that would appear to be an actual interview with real quotes.
My usual "interview" skepticism alarms did not go off at all but most certainly will when all the other sites take this info and twist it around into something totally different.
TOYOTA BOSS SAYS THEY ARE NOT MAKING IC ENGINES ANYMORE.

Yep. It's almost as if people cannot look at the publicly available information that Toyota releases and come to a logical conclusion. I had a debate with the guys over at the VW Vortex trying to explain that a pure Toyota Supra would've been insanely expensive as they are at 90%+ capacity at their factories in Japan and would need to take from the Lexus line. They also have no I6 and no use case for an I6 in any of their products. But people will be willfully ignorant...

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

So the whole Boxer usage was all PR drivel.

Pretty much like everything about that car.

It just worked out so perfectly to PR speak all the 86 references and the reasoning for certain things. (Boxer engine because low CoG and heritage use in the sports 800, the 86 is an homage to the old AE86 corolla, the 86x86 bore/stroke throwback to the 86 moniker, 86 here and there mumbo jumbo, design throwback to the 2000GT, etc). It was nothing more than a modern take on the 90's Japanese sports cars and they 86'd the ever living crap out of it because they could.

I would also wager a guess, at the time a 100% Toyota 86 would definitely prove his theory correct. However I wonder if his theory NOW is different with TNGA underpinning everything? I mean if he were to create a next gen 86 NOW, the chassis should be there, the engines are available (maybe not a sport tuned one, but they have a potent one in the dynamic force 2.5, and the 2.0 don't seem to be a slouch either). I bet that lopped off a ton of the R&D and would make it easier to get the point of entry where the 86 currently is.

A pure Toyota 86 would be prohibitively expensive for the same reason that a pure Toyota Supra would be. The only rear wheel drive architecture they have is the TNGA-N and TNGA-L. TNGA-L is out since that is only used for the LC/LS and there are only two factories that can do it, one of which being the utlra low capacity Motomachi plant. TNGA-N has not been shortened yet for the IS, but even if it were, the only factories equipped for TNGA-N are in Japan. The lines that are being tooled up for TNGA-N produce the IS, GS and RX vehicles.

Toyota's 2016 share holder call revealed that their Japanese factories are running in excess of 95% capacity. To alleviate capacity constraints, they recently spent $2 billion to build the Guanzhou plant and that's only producing TNGA-K (FWD) architecture for the Asian market. In order to make the next 86 on TNGA-N, they would either need to steal a line from the far more profitable Lexus vehicles or build a new plant.

That is not going to happen just to sell maybe 20,000 86s per year globally. It's why they (forced) the partnership on Subaru and Subaru was rightfully pissed to lose capacity at Gunma when they could be making more Crosstreks.

Edit: I will update my post and say I get people's concerns. They want sports cars from Toyota built with the same ethos and passion that Toyota pours into the Land Cruiser, Crown Majesta or LC500. The reality is, they cannot deliver that and hit the price points that the 86 and Supra will sell at. It's unfortunate, but if you want a truly Toyota sports car, you need to pony up for the RC-F, GS-F, LC500 or LFA.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

So the whole Boxer usage was all PR drivel.

Pretty much like everything about that car.

It just worked out so perfectly to PR speak all the 86 references and the reasoning for certain things. (Boxer engine because low CoG and heritage use in the sports 800, the 86 is an homage to the old AE86 corolla, the 86x86 bore/stroke throwback to the 86 moniker, 86 here and there mumbo jumbo, design throwback to the 2000GT, etc). It was nothing more than a modern take on the 90's Japanese sports cars and they 86'd the ever living crap out of it because they could.

I would also wager a guess, at the time a 100% Toyota 86 would definitely prove his theory correct. However I wonder if his theory NOW is different with TNGA underpinning everything? I mean if he were to create a next gen 86 NOW, the chassis should be there, the engines are available (maybe not a sport tuned one, but they have a potent one in the dynamic force 2.5, and the 2.0 don't seem to be a slouch either). I bet that lopped off a ton of the R&D and would make it easier to get the point of entry where the 86 currently is.

PR hype yes. PR drivel no. All of the benefits of the boxer are real. Of course marketing is going to use whatever they can to catch people's attention. They set out to make a certain car and the choice of using the boxer was an important part of meeting their design goals. Nothing wrong with that.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

There was also quite a bit of discussion as to why it was a joint venture. Tada theorizes that if it was a purely Toyota car, it would've taken 2+ more years, a new factory and have a price tag over $100,000. Of course, to those who know the industry, this is no surprise.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

yup, A70TTR (former engineer on A90 project) said that if Toyota had reskin the LC500 to look like the FT1 then it would have been a $100k+ car.

[vh_supra26]

Thanks @Guff!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/our...rts-park.1756/

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Thanks @Guff!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/our...rts-park.1756/

Nice. You have the British Racing Green 86 parked beside the Supra.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/med...ek.1753/page-2

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLUzAU1Urbo[/ame]

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/med...ek.1753/page-2

How many guys in black does it take to guide a Supra into position?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by gymratter

yup, A70TTR (former engineer on A90 project) said that if Toyota had reskin the LC500 to look like the FT1 then it would have been a $100k+ car.

That's not surprising.
a 100k car being reskinned isn't going to magically turn it into a 50k car.
It'll be a reskinned 100k car.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How many guys in black does it take to guide a Supra into position?

1 to actually do the work, and the others to stand there looking like they're useful.

Like Construction!

[m.box.design]

Originally Posted by gymratter

yup, A70TTR (former engineer on A90 project) said that if Toyota had reskin the LC500 to look like the FT1 then it would have been a $100k+ car.

Then all the "It's a BMW" naysayers would be on the "It's too expensive" witch hunt.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by m.box.design

Then all the "It's a BMW" naysayers would be on the "It's too expensive" witch hunt.

Can hear it already
"well it is just a reskined Lexus not a REAL Supra. If I wanted a Lexus I would have bought a Lexus"

I am afraid they had no chance of winning everybody over with anything less than building a 25 year old car and charging econobox prices for it.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Can hear it already
"well it is just a reskined Lexus not a REAL Supra. If I wanted a Lexus I would have bought a Lexus"

I am afraid they had no chance of winning everybody over with anything less than building a 25 year old car and charging econobox prices for it.

Nah, then they'd get the same treatment that FCA does with the LX body cars: "The platform is ancient and Toyota are just cost-cutting. Why won't Toyota build a modern Supra?".