|
Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack Specific topics relating to wheels and tires. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
06-17-2022, 09:25 AM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 2015 BRZ Limited
Location: United States
Posts: 33
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
More Oversteer with Wider Wheels & Tires?
I have a 2015 BRZ and was running stock wheels with Michelin PS4S tires. I installed some WedsSport TC105N 17x9 +35 wheels with Continental Extreme Contact Sport tires (245/40/17) and had an alignment done. Suspension is completely stock.
I’ve noticed more oversteer at the limit rather than the mild understeer that the stock setup had. Is that normal? Not sure why I am seeing more oversteer considering the ratio of tire width front to back stayed the same (i.e. tires are wider but are still a square setup). Any insight is appreciated. |
06-17-2022, 12:09 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,794
Thanks: 2,164
Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Could be the mould release compound on the new tires.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."
2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build |
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post: | wparsons (06-27-2022) |
06-17-2022, 12:35 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: FR-S,GTI
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 1,155
Thanks: 228
Thanked 823 Times in 419 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Agreed, it could be the mold release.
Or it could be the Conti's are a much crappier tire than the PS4S's. I've had some pretty crappy tires on my car and I think the Continentals were the worst. I might have had a bad batch but the one's I had the sidewalls were so soft you could almost poke your finger through them. The only tires I've ever replaced long before they were due. The tires I currently have are Forceum Hena's in 235/45/17. They're made in Indonesia. Nowhere near as good as PS4S's but better than POS Extreme Contacts. And a lot cheaper. |
06-17-2022, 12:39 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Do you have the before/after alignment settings? That could be part of it.
These cars are nose-heavy and overwork the outside front during cornering. Going from 215 to 245 tires could result in a slight change in balance and make the car less understeery due to the wider tire being relatively less overloaded at the outside front. But still, unless you've done a lot of mods the car should still understeer at the limit. Inducing oversteer should require something like a mid-corner lift off the gas or some other driver input. Last edited by ZDan; 06-17-2022 at 01:24 PM. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | Tatsu333 (06-19-2022), Ultramaroon (06-17-2022) |
06-17-2022, 05:23 PM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Drives: '22 brz Sport-Tech
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 61
Thanks: 35
Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Get a track alignment. That happened to me with no change in my tires. I figured the alignment from the factory differs from the alignment specs given to dealers and others ( for stock alignment). I got my car aligned by 3 places until someone told me to get a track alignment from a race shop. Since then that is all I get. After a few spins in traffic due to the "stock" alignment I won't be going back to that.
|
06-17-2022, 05:42 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 2015 BRZ Limited
Location: United States
Posts: 33
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I suspect the tires are a lot worse at a minimum. They slip much easier from a stop than the PS4S did. The Contis only seem to grip well when they’re really warm while the PS4S gripped like crazy regardless of weather or if they’d been warmed up.
Alignment before and after: Before: After: Uploading the pictures from mobile, so hopefully they’re clear enough. |
The Following User Says Thank You to VR4Jr For This Useful Post: | ZDan (06-18-2022) |
06-17-2022, 05:47 PM | #7 |
Purist
Join Date: Oct 2016
Drives: 2013 FRS - Hot Lava
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 446
Thanks: 37
Thanked 228 Times in 135 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
The stock platform is made to take advantage of the 215 tires. When you put big sticky tires (The Conti ECS is a fantastic tire) on with no suspension changes, you overwork the front tires and that little bit of oversteer that was there stock, is exacerbated. My car was very squirrely with only tires. Coilovers fixed all that.
__________________
WTB: Everything Verus
RaceComp SS-1, Complete SuperPro bushings, TR Motorsport FF10 17x9 +45, GruppeS UEL, HKS Hi-Power V2, OFT(93/E85) |
The Following User Says Thank You to Westen86 For This Useful Post: | Jdmjunkie (06-17-2022) |
06-18-2022, 10:08 AM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
You went from little bit of rear toe-in (not excessive) to pretty much zero rear toe, but IMO like you say it's more on the tires. FWIW I ran the same 245/40-17 Conti ECS tires on my car, and initially at the track the rear end *was* a bit more dancy-around on left-right transitions (versus serious 200tw tires). But the grip was there. By the time they were ~half-worn they were a lot more well-behaved and were as fast around New Hampshire Motor Speedway road course as Hankook RS-4 "Extreme Perf" tires. Honestly I think they are pretty great *street* tires, just not necessarily as razor-sharp as I'd like. *Especially* at full tread-depth. Last edited by ZDan; 06-18-2022 at 10:23 AM. |
|
06-18-2022, 11:36 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: Track preped NA FRS
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 987
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 680 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
No way in hell with a stock car and that alignment that you have oversteer. Im willing to bet my car that it is caused by how you are driving, rather than tires, or whatever other thing people are coming up with. Almost 0 camber up front on mcphersons? No way the front grips more than the rear.
|
06-19-2022, 08:56 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
My bet is that your oversteer prior coilover installation due rear toe being out of whack, maybe even toe-out (that shouldn't be there, as even stock rear toe "should" be slight toe-in). Or general mishandling with drivers inputs or choices for almost intentional inducing of rear grip loss for fun sake, when car is loaded in turn or on low grip (eg. winter/in wet/on gravel). |
|
06-19-2022, 01:15 PM | #11 |
Dismember
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 Red Scion FR-S
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 5,557
Thanks: 2,152
Thanked 3,999 Times in 2,155 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Get a 2013 FRS. Massive oversteer on demand.
__________________
|
06-20-2022, 01:00 PM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Drives: '22 brz Sport-Tech
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 61
Thanks: 35
Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
And of course check your tire pressures.
|
06-20-2022, 03:22 PM | #13 | |
Purist
Join Date: Oct 2016
Drives: 2013 FRS - Hot Lava
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 446
Thanks: 37
Thanked 228 Times in 135 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
WTB: Everything Verus
RaceComp SS-1, Complete SuperPro bushings, TR Motorsport FF10 17x9 +45, GruppeS UEL, HKS Hi-Power V2, OFT(93/E85) |
|
06-20-2022, 05:18 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: '13 Whiteout
Location: San Clemente
Posts: 1,491
Thanks: 496
Thanked 1,242 Times in 673 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
It's probably the way you're driving the car. More grip and the car breaks away at a higher speed. When they lose grip they lose it faster which compounds the need for smoother inputs with gas and brake. That's one reason the car comes with crummy tires, you'll crash at a lower speed.
You can play around with tire pressures as a first line of changing the setup. Last edited by TommyW; 06-20-2022 at 08:21 PM. |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Difference in handling with wider wheels/tires | ggbrz | BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics | 15 | 01-31-2022 12:06 PM |
Wider tires on stock wheels | buzznasa | Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack | 30 | 01-21-2019 01:55 PM |
what is needed to run tires wider than 275? | AdrianSaldana | Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack | 12 | 07-13-2016 11:13 AM |
Stock wheels + Upgraded Tires vs. Wider wheels + upgraded tires | themajesticone | Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack | 18 | 08-04-2014 02:49 PM |
Camber or wider tires? | Khyron686 | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 8 | 05-27-2014 09:27 PM |