Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Cade01]

So My Question Is, Are The Cars Being Shipped Out Going To Be Fixed? I Have The One I Have A Deposit On Coming Into The States At The End Of November, I Hope It's Ok.

[KrzysFR]

Originally Posted by doggy

Your dealer sucks big time.....

What i got today from my source from Subaru dealer tech guys - is that USA still do not have 'new' reflash and that it will be getting it later on the run this month. Europe - will get new one on Nov. 5...

Also - ECU setup / software is different for USA / JP / EU markets.. All of them have different setups.

Lol yeah, but to their defense they don't have any details coming down from above. The GT 86 was sold here 3 months after the US, and in smaller quantities, so with ~5% of cars affected (1 in 20) I'm the first guy with the problems that they are seeing. It took them 3 weeks to get an actual response from their contacts at HQ that was not the generic response for P0019 codes. Add to that the fact that most french owners may not speak English and won't find this thread while searching the web. It is only because of this thread that I was able to argue with them about the real problem (thanks to eurospeed and the other guys!)

Also, when you say Europe, do you mean that it will be the same re-flash for all countries, or that is still has to trickle down to all the branches in each country, and pass the local certifications ? It would be surprising if the actual ECU hardware was different for each and every country in Europe, it would be a logistic nightmare to have that many SKUs for basically the same parts...

PS. This reminds me that I should add some keywords for french speaking people to find this thread

Problème de ralenti moteur Toyota GT-86, voyant alerte diagnostic moteur, anomalie moteur, perte de puissance, ralenti instable, ralenti qui broute, remplacement calculateur électronique. Si vous lisez ce post, vous n'êtes pas le seul a avoir un problème !

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by KrzysFR

Lol yeah, but to their defense they don't have any details coming down from above. The GT 86 was sold here 3 months after the US, and in smaller quantities, so with ~5% of cars affected (1 in 20) I'm the first guy with the problems that they are seeing. It took them 3 weeks to get an actual response from their contacts at HQ that was not the generic response for P0019 codes. Add to that the fact that most french owners may not speak English and won't find this thread while searching the web. It is only because of this thread that I was able to argue with them about the real problem (thanks to eurospeed and the other guys!)

Also, when you say Europe, do you mean that it will be the same re-flash for all countries, or that is still has to trickle down to all the branches in each country, and pass the local certifications ? It would be surprising if the actual ECU hardware was different for each and every country in Europe, it would be a logistic nightmare to have that many SKUs for basically the same parts...

PS. This reminds me that I should add some keywords for french speaking people to find this thread

Problème de ralenti moteur Toyota GT-86, voyant alerte diagnostic moteur, anomalie moteur, perte de puissance, ralenti instable, ralenti qui broute, remplacement calculateur électronique. Si vous lisez ce post, vous n'êtes pas le seul a avoir un problème !

Off topic, but is English a second language to you? If so, your English grammar is very good. My father is German and speaks English very fluently and his grammar is excellent, although, he did go to a University down here for engineering, so in a way, he didn't have much of a choice

Anyways, back on topic: I'm still a bit skeptical about the fix. I agree with some of you. Sounds like a software solution to fix a hardware issue. Not sure how comfortable I am with that...

[doggy]

Originally Posted by KrzysFR

Lol yeah, but to their defense they don't have any details coming down from above. The GT 86 was sold here 3 months after the US, and in smaller quantities, so with ~5% of cars affected (1 in 20) I'm the first guy with the problems that they are seeing. It took them 3 weeks to get an actual response from their contacts at HQ that was not the generic response for P0019 codes. Add to that the fact that most french owners may not speak English and won't find this thread while searching the web. It is only because of this thread that I was able to argue with them about the real problem (thanks to eurospeed and the other guys!)

Also, when you say Europe, do you mean that it will be the same re-flash for all countries, or that is still has to trickle down to all the branches in each country, and pass the local certifications ? It would be surprising if the actual ECU hardware was different for each and every country in Europe, it would be a logistic nightmare to have that many SKUs for basically the same parts...

PS. This reminds me that I should add some keywords for french speaking people to find this thread

Problème de ralenti moteur Toyota GT-86, voyant alerte diagnostic moteur, anomalie moteur, perte de puissance, ralenti instable, ralenti qui broute, remplacement calculateur électronique. Si vous lisez ce post, vous n'êtes pas le seul a avoir un problème !

Software / Setups vary by Region. USA have one software setup (fuel / emisions) Europe another - and Japan - totaly different. Japan has best fuel so far from all these 3.

EU regions will have the same soft - im 99% positive about this.

Our dealers (Subaru) - never knew about this problem also - it was me - who is beeing paranoid (i still dont have Check / idle problems - and have Idle steady at 1300miles) who adresed this to them - and asked to investigate And a friend of mine works in technical division - so he gets all the updates / goes to training...

[MSTiFK8R]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

Hi,
I've followed this thread with great interest and here's my take on what *possibly* may be happening.
Most of the occurances of this issue seem to be happening when the engine is fully warmed up and at idle. The CEL comes on and the car goes into 'limp mode'. Some have had a successful fix with an ECU reflash or new ECU. Some have had cam gears replaced or engine failure.
There have been some thoughts posted that the problem may be low oil pressure to the cams, a sensor reads this low pressure, trips a CEL, and as a safety measure, the engine goes into limp mode. This hypothesis is mine also.
However, could the core cause of this problem be the 0W oil that that Scion/Subaru recomemends for this engine? If you have changed your own oil and used this weight, it has the consistency of water.
As the engine warms, the oil will thin out. At idle, the oil pressure will be at it's lowest. If it gets too low, the sensors detect it and set off the CEL.
In the 'old days', cars had an 'oil pressure' idiot light (some had oil pressure gauges) that might flicker on hot days when you were sitting in traffic - the oil pressure was too low (the lights would usually come on at about 2 - 5psi) due to low viscosity or low oil level. As soon as you revved the engine slightly, the pressure would increase and the light would go out. But on an electronically monitored engine like these, it would trip a CEL and limp mode.
When the ECU is reflashed or replaced, maybe the new parameters allow for lower oil pressure to be present at idle speeds for X amount of time before tripping the CEL. Maybe they change the reprograming of the ECU to not trip at the previously low oil pressure levels (i.e. before, CEL was tripped at 7psi but after reflash, would only be tripped at 3 psi).
What if users just started using a slightly heavier weight oil such as 5W or even the old standard, 10W? What if Toyota/Subaru did a recall and replaced the oil pumps with a higher volume/pressue model? The heavier weight oil and higher oil pressure would affect gas mileage slightly but I personally would accept that as a trade off for engine longevity.
Any thoughts?

Hi!


Just my 2 cents reg oil pressure

I got my DEFI oil press\temp gauge installed recently

On a warmed engine (90С\190F oil) engine runs 1-0,9 bar \ 13-14 psi oil pressure

On the road the oil pressure seems to follow the tacho pretty fast and pretty straightforward in most cases - 2K rpm for 2bar \ 30psi , 3 for 3bar and so on till the bypass at 6 bar \ 87 psi sharp , no matter how you redline the engine

of course, when it's cold, the oil press could be higher

I wonder how safe is running 13 psi idling on this waterish 0-20W

I got used to see 30+psi idling on my EJ20's and EJ25's , but the oil viscosity I used was never lower than 10-40, mostly 5-50 and 15-50

FYI - no CEL by now on my car, but it's too early to be sure it's safe (<2K miles yet)

[Sean K.]

Approximately 10K BRZ/FR-S sold in the US now. 169-170 cars (some are not US cars) listed on this forum. Toyota claiming 5% of cars are affected.....that's 500 cars in the US alone.

The theory that ALL or even most (actually, not even half) of US owners with the problem have found this thread and posted here: pretty well debunked.

Conclusion: Not everyone who owns these cars and has the CEL problem is involved in forums or knows about this thread.

Caveat: That the Toyota reps saying 5% actually are telling the truth.

Just for the record.

Sean

[mhigham]

Latest from dealer/Scion Customer care: They will not take it out of another vehicle because the ones on the lot are not the "special updated modules" and they are already programmed for a particular vehicle.

Translation: We already sold you a car, we don't really care what you think at the moment.

Latest ETA is 2-3 weeks.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by mhigham

Latest from dealer/Scion Customer care: They will not take it out of another vehicle because the ones on the lot are not the "special updated modules" and they are already programmed for a particular vehicle.

Translation: We already sold you a car, we don't really care what you think at the moment.

Latest ETA is 2-3 weeks.

Scavenging an ecu from another vehicle doesn't seem like such a good idea to me, but I feel your pain (and frustration).

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in a year or two. Maybe they will finally get the car running right, but no one will want it b/c of all the bad initial experience. [Just thinking out loud. Don't mind me.]

[mhigham]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Scavenging an ecu from another vehicle doesn't seem like such a good idea to me, but I feel your pain (and frustration).

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in a year or two. Maybe they will finally get the car running right, but no one will want it b/c of all the bad initial experience. [Just thinking out loud. Don't mind me.]

So I get to look at the cars on the lot but not enjoy the one just like it that I own.

I agree. For a car that had such hype, its launch I think will go down as a failure or at least forgettable. I cannot/will not believe that three years of testing did not reveal this problem; this had to be known about over a year ago.

Can we get a smiley with a CEL light? It is long overdue. maybe this one, but after the burnout, a CEL appears...lol

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by Cade01

So My Question Is, Are The Cars Being Shipped Out Going To Be Fixed? I Have The One I Have A Deposit On Coming Into The States At The End Of November, I Hope It's Ok.

hello..new here and figured I'd get my first post in before we loose power from Sandy...

But I am wondering the same thing..got a call from my dealer that my BRZ will be in Nov 12. I have a Vin in the 6042XX range..

Will the Nov cars have the ECU fix and the updated fuel pump to take care of the crickets??? Anyone who works for SOA know??? When do you think the Nov cars came out of the factory????

[developer]

Originally Posted by BRZnut

hello..new here and figured I'd get my first post in before we loose power from Sandy...

But I am wondering the same thing..got a call from my dealer that my BRZ will be in Nov 12. I have a Vin in the 6042XX range..

Will the Nov cars have the ECU fix and the updated fuel pump to take care of the crickets??? Anyone who works for SOA know??? When do you think the Nov cars came out of the factory????

My BRZ Limited already had the "cricket" fix from the factory and I purchased a month ago. As far as the ECU I don't know.

[Rob_g]

I'm nervous!! I'm waiting to hear back from dealer finance on my loan approval to trade in the FR-S and get another 4Runner. It was originally turned down because of negative equity and I think the decision was quite unfair. I have them taking another look at it so I hope this can go through. It will be a HUGE relief if this goes through and a kick to the gonads if it doesn't...

Rob

[Space Boy Matt]

Space Boy Matt, BRZ, 2050 miles, 6033xx, [status: dealer could do nothing, SOA has pulled the first TSB for this issue since it seems like it's not working, dealer could not get a hold of Subaru HQ in NJ since it is being hit by huricane Sandy atm. Dealer told me it's safe to drive with the CEL for now. {even though my engine power is now restricted due to the error} So I drove my BRZ off the lot and on my way. I will call Subaru HQ in NJ as soon as they are open again after the storm to hear what they have to say about the issue.], San Jose, Ca
`````````
Update: (10/31/12 10am) Got a hold of Subaru HQ in NJ. They then contacted my dealer. Then Subaru HQ called me back saying that the dealership techs and the HQ techs are going to work together to form a plan for a fix. I should expect a call from someone this Friday. (???) I figure this means I've been put on the back burner since Subaru HQ is still recovering from the storm???? Idk

[jduffy]

Originally Posted by Sean K.

Approximately 10K BRZ/FR-S sold in the US now. 169-170 cars (some are not US cars) listed on this forum. Toyota claiming 5% of cars are affected.....that's 500 cars in the US alone.

The theory that ALL or even most (actually, not even half) of US owners with the problem have found this thread and posted here: pretty well debunked.

Conclusion: Not everyone who owns these cars and has the CEL problem is involved in forums or knows about this thread.

Caveat: That the Toyota reps saying 5% actually are telling the truth.

Just for the record.

Sean

Can you show me the Toyota webpage where they say it's 5%? I'm curious to see that.