10W-50 oil in BRZ?

[CedN]

No, oil pressure do not tell you about oil flow since viscosity comes into play. With the same oil pressure and temp one oil can have 20% more flow than a different one. It's pretty common that oil temperatures goes up with a higher grade oil.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by lapsio

So if I were to increase by one step what oil would you recommend? Please consider traces from daily driving shown above if possible.

I'm a bit puzzled because this oil runs quite hot with my driving style, regularly near 120 and guys at Subaru asked me to report when it gets in 120-130 deg range because it may be unhealthy :c According to my observations I'd have to report it like 160 times during service interval or so lol.

Without a 0w20 baseline, with pressure, and flow data there's no way to determine anything.

I would prefer to see oil temp taken at the sump. It's going to give you more accurate feedback for a couple of reasons. One, is that the temp is skewed because the OEM temp sender is post oil pump. Another reason is that we don't know yet if the ECU is modulating the oil temp displayed. Oddly enough, this is becoming a more common trend from the OEM. We've seen this in Porche, AMG, and even with the 2015 WRX. With the 2015 WRX you'd see a difference swing from 0-to-just over 20 degrees. Why is this done? I speculate that it's done as another layer of safety. Similar to how an OEM coolant gauge is really a course 3-position gauge.

Another thing I would recommend is sending oil samples out for analysis. This is a safeguard against going down a path that is detrimental to the engine. I wouldn't put too much weight into feedback from techs, we hear them give bad info all the time. If anything with a warranty is questionable, Subaru will send a regional tech (non-dealer affiliated) who will make decisions on coverage. He WILL point to the owner's manual if the oil gets tested.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Another thing I would recommend is sending oil samples out for analysis. This is a safeguard against going down a path that is detrimental to the engine.

Will sending current oil (10w50) after next change also indicate whether something was wrong? Or does it only show signs of wear if oil was too thin?

Besides I checked owners manual of my BRZ and it also mentions 5W-30 as officially acceptable oil. So I think I'll go with that then... At least nobody will void my warranty for that xD

Also wow I think this thread made me realize what does "hot oil" actually mean lol
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Besides I checked owners manual of my BRZ and it also mentions 5W-30 as officially acceptable oil. So I think I'll go with that then... At least nobody will void my warranty for that xD

5-30 is a good, middle of the road choice.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Will sending current oil (10w50) after next change also indicate whether something was wrong? Or does it only show signs of wear if oil was too thin?

It will indicate if there are issues one way or the other.

[CedN]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Will sending current oil (10w50) after next change also indicate whether something was wrong? Or does it only show signs of wear if oil was too thin?

Besides I checked owners manual of my BRZ and it also mentions 5W-30 as officially acceptable oil. So I think I'll go with that then... At least nobody will void my warranty for that xD

Also wow I think this thread made me realize what does "hot oil" actually mean lol
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820

5w30 Subaru oil is what my local toyota/Subaru dealer put in the twins. Im not sure exactly why they chose that, probably because its the same as other Subarus.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Will sending current oil (10w50) after next change also indicate whether something was wrong? Or does it only show signs of wear if oil was too thin?

yes, simply put.

oil analysis will test the fluid and report back with what's in it. there's always some expected levels of each type of metal, specific to different parts of the engine.

here's a sample of a report. i've always liked blackstone labs



pay attention to the 'universal averages' and what they're pointing out in that report. excess wear indicates that something isn't right, or that would require different maintenance.

[DrinkenBRZ]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Okay so my conclusions after watching video is that the first thing I need is oil pressure monitoring right? Because without that it's basically clueless guessing what could be going on.

Video here is quite extreme. though. I mean yeah I'm aware that 10w50 will be dreadful in sub zero but like I said I keep car in garage. Even though there was 0 outside yesterday, oil never really reached this temperature at any point to begin with. It was 8 deg in garage which is basically the same temp I have in underground garage in summer.

And it's acceptable for me to just never start car below this temp with such oil. That said I DO indeed think this oil runs hotter than 0w20 did and I have some doubts about that.

So to recap - according to my understanding oil pressure determines how well oil flows through engine so IF i find oil that within my operating temperatures during daily driving (which is around 110-120 C) has similar pressure to 0w20 which is what's recommended for grandpa driving at 90-100 deg C on oil (which I personally still see as "cold engine") then it means flow rate should be fine and I should be good to go?

You are reasonably correct. FWIW you can probably run the 10w50 down to -10C and be fine. It’s overkill for a stock twin that isn’t seeing endurance racing, but just use it now that it’s in there.

[Grady]

I would think 10w50 would not be ideal for your situation. 120 deg C is not that hot and you are not keeping it up there for hours at a time. If you are NA I would run 5W30 and as stated above be careful until you oil gets to temperature (not coolant). My experience is, mine is turboed and I do run 0W40. Car does not get driven below freezing and our track days can be 32 degC plus. I am usually coming off the track after 20 min at 130 deg c or so.

[chipmunk]

I have not read what others have commented so far, but have you considered an oil cooler instead? There are dozens of pictures here of oil starvation and cavitation. 10W might be too thick for start-up and until fully warmed-up. If I were you, an oil cooler would be the first place to look into.

[Grady]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Standard Mustang GT 5W-20. Track pack? 5W-50. Exact same engine.

I will agree with you. Everyone is always stating that the “engine was designed for that weight” Not a correct statement. The engine was designed for a certain oil viscosity. This changes when you change the operating parameters(Temerature) of an engine. Another case in point is the 2GR-FE engine. In a Lexus it takes 0W20. In an Lotus Evora it calls out 5W40. Lotus does nothing to the engine except add a supercharger to it.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

I have not read what others have commented so far, but have you considered an oil cooler instead? There are dozens of pictures here of oil starvation and cavitation. 10W might be too thick for start-up and until fully warmed-up. If I were you, an oil cooler would be the first place to look into.

I already ordered Rock Oil Carbon 5w30 and scheduled oil change as soon as it arrives. Maybe I panicked a bit but idk. I've seen plenty of really extreme opinions about low tolerances in FA20 and oil flow issues on many various forums, including official Subaru forum. The same concerns which also were mentioned here. And it's kinda not the point. I mean - I wanted better oil to be able to hammer car harder without any compromises and considerations, not to actually drive more carefully due to oil flow concerns, problems with maintaining oil temps above 95 when it was colder outside etc. With 5w30 at least my only concern will be temps, which are easy to understand and control. Unlike oil flow and pressure which I can't control and monitor due to lack of gauges and tools in my brz.

At least I'm gonna have some comparison since I saw temperatures with 0w20, 10w50 and now I'll see how 5w30 behaves. I have all my current rides recorded using OBD and GPS so I'll be able to later compare temperatures. That said today I again reached 122 C (around 250 F) on my way to work and I'm a bit worried about oil flow soo... I guess I don't feel all that comfortable with that 10w50.

If temps will be worse with 5w30 then I'll revisit this topic and wonder what next. For now I guess I know what to do.

[spcmafia]

Like chipmunk already pointed out, an oil cooler is probably a way better choice than experimenting different oil consistencies. Another area I'm seeing, is that if you're constantly hammering the car, oil can get in places it shouldn't, so maybe an oil catch can too? Just as a fail-safe measure. Are you also keeping an eye on different fluids such as LSD/Clutch, Transmission?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Like chipmunk already pointed out, an oil cooler is probably a way better choice than experimenting different oil consistencies.

It doesn't have to be "experimenting", you should just pick viscosity based on max operating temperature and overall usage. If operating temp is 270F at the track and you don't drive on the street, 10w50 might make sense. Not so much street/track tho... FWIW I've been running 5w30 street/track with no cooler, temps up to 275F at the track. Might go to 0w- or 5w-40 this year...

Another area I'm seeing, is that if you're constantly hammering the car, oil can get in places it shouldn't, so maybe an oil catch can too?

Highly doubtful this is needed. My BRZ is the first car I've tracked a lot that didn't use any oil at all at the track. Typically I see 5000 street miles and 4 track days (~2hrs) between changes and I've never had to add oil between changes. In another thread somebody mentioned they added a catch-can and then removed it as it collected next to nothing. These engines are pretty good at containing the oil under track usage.

Just as a fail-safe measure. Are you also keeping an eye on different fluids such as LSD/Clutch, Transmission?

For me, I just swap trans and diff fluid out every season or two, never bothered to try to measure temps of these fluids. You could, but then it's the kind of thing where if you see the temps you may then think you "need" a trans cooler and a diff cooler. In reality you probably don't...