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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 12-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #57
Jaden
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maybe low end on a mustang...

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I can see it - something like a low boost pulley vortech, carb tune, running piss gas, would probably make peak rwhp on a dynojet around 225, but that's at the upper end. E85 increases power throughout the power band. Although, take that same centrifugal supercharger, run a slightly smaller pulley, 93 octane, headers, and an optimized tune, and you'll be WAY faster than a stock S2000. All depends on how it's set up.

You're a little off there my friend... That might be the LOW end on a mustang... It would be making 240+ on a dyno jet.

Jaden
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:26 PM   #58
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anyone jump ship to a 2015+ Mustang GT?

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So you're down to just being 1000 lbs heavier than a stock twin...with 420 bhp...

wow so I have to get to a whole 265 whp to destroy you in every way...

I think I'll stick with the twin TYVM....

Jaden

435bhp

No need to be an assh0le. I had a twin, loved it, just wanted something different. I was just letting someone who asked a question know. You'd need closer to 300-310whp, since with just an exhaust, CAI, and tune, GT's are regularly 410-15 ish whp and about 360-70 wtq , and at that point, if you got a good deal on a gt you'll probably have less in your car than a fully bolted, FI with supporting mods and tune 86, and be more reliable. Add longtube headers and those numbers go to 440+/390+ at the wheels. And then you'd need 345whp. Bolt on for bolt on it doesn't make sense to compare. They're just different animals. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, as I really, really like 86's, just saying.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:41 PM   #59
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You're a little off there my friend... That might be the LOW end on a mustang... It would be making 240+ on a dyno jet.

Jaden
Yeah maybe, it's in the low 200's typically with crappy CA gas :-D Well documented instance here:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40792

My point was I could fathom a situation where a mostly stock car running crappy gas and an out-of-box tune might not feel that much faster than a stock S2000. Tune it right, put some good gas in there, etc. and obviously it will be noticably quicker than any stock S2000.
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:27 PM   #60
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So you're down to just being 1000 lbs heavier than a stock twin...with 420 bhp...

wow so I have to get to a whole 265 whp to destroy you in every way...

I think I'll stick with the twin TYVM....

Jaden
Why are you so hostile to every car that's not a twin? Why can people not have a different opinion than you?

What do you mean "destroy in every which way." Do you track? the new mustang GT is devilishly fast, you should have some respect for what it can do, and for $32k!, and with a factory warranty! (i can't wait to see what pobst can do with the 2016 camaro ss). Hp/weight ratio isn't the be-all-end-all. just look at the fastestlap times for any track, newness(tires) and power matter more than weight.

Hp also is not a great measurement of engine performance. It's really some combination of tq and hp over usable power band (or really the integral of the power over the used power band). The v8's make a lot more power than just the hp demonstrates.

You don't have to put down all the other cars to like the fr-s... you can like the fr-s as well as appreciate other cars
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:05 PM   #61
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So you're down to just being 1000 lbs heavier than a stock twin...with 420 bhp...

wow so I have to get to a whole 265 whp to destroy you in every way...

I think I'll stick with the twin TYVM....

Jaden
And how exactly will you gain that 265 whp? You do realize this is forgoing reliability, right? For all the money you could spend reaching that 265 whp, you could have saved it up for the Mustang GT instead.

Do you have any track experience to back up your claim, at least? If not, quit it with the bench racing.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:09 PM   #62
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I'm not hostile to every car that's not a twin...

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Why are you so hostile to every car that's not a twin? Why can people not have a different opinion than you?

What do you mean "destroy in every which way." Do you track? the new mustang GT is devilishly fast, you should have some respect for what it can do, and for $32k!, and with a factory warranty! (i can't wait to see what pobst can do with the 2016 camaro ss). Hp/weight ratio isn't the be-all-end-all. just look at the fastestlap times for any track, newness(tires) and power matter more than weight.

Hp also is not a great measurement of engine performance. It's really some combination of tq and hp over usable power band (or really the integral of the power over the used power band). The v8's make a lot more power than just the hp demonstrates.

You don't have to put down all the other cars to like the fr-s... you can like the fr-s as well as appreciate other cars

I'm hostile to misinformation and people saying that twins are only good for taking corners...

I absolutely appreciate other cars...

I love the 2015 mustang and had they been available when I bought my twin and had ford actually followed through on the reduced weight I would probably have one.

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Old 12-28-2015, 04:12 PM   #63
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I drive cars on the street not the track...

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And how exactly will you gain that 265 whp? You do realize this is forgoing reliability, right? For all the money you could spend reaching that 265 whp, you could have saved it up for the Mustang GT instead.

Do you have any track experience to back up your claim, at least? If not, quit it with the bench racing.
Forums rules preclude me from going into detail... let's just suffice it to say that most cars on the road faster than mine need driver upgrades desperately....

Jaden
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:13 PM   #64
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I'm hostile to misinformation and people saying that twins are only good for taking corners...

I absolutely appreciate other cars...

I love the 2015 mustang and had they been available when I bought my twin and had ford actually followed through on the reduced weight I would probably have one.

Jaden
You don't believe you're spreading misinformation by saying that a twin will absolutely destroy a Mustang GT around a track?
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:14 PM   #65
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Forums rules preclude me from going into detail... let's just suffice it to say that most cars on the road faster than mine need driver upgrades desperately....

Jaden
So I take it you have no track experience. Okay.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:17 PM   #66
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I didn't say that at all...

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So I take it you have no track experience. Okay.
I didn't say I had no track experience, I just prefer to drive cars on the street as that's what they were meant for.

Jaden

p.s. I'd be happy to race you from S.D. to buttonwillow and then at buttonwillow once we get there...although my car will likely have time to cool down once I get there.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:25 PM   #67
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a stock mustang versus a 265 whp twin?

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You don't believe you're spreading misinformation by saying that a twin will absolutely destroy a Mustang GT around a track?
You're saying a stock mustang WOULDN'T get destroyed by a 265whp twin?

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Old 12-28-2015, 04:28 PM   #68
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I didn't say I had no track experience, I just prefer to drive cars on the street as that's what they were meant for.

Jaden

p.s. I'd be happy to race you from S.D. to buttonwillow and then at buttonwillow once we get there...
And you know what, that's fine.

But please don't go saying that an FR-S with a turbo strapped onto it will demolish a brand new Mustang GT.

I agree with you that with enough of a driver difference, it is possible for even a stock FR-S to demolish a Mustang GT on the track, but the same thing can happen vice versa.

And no, I don't enjoy street racing. You're faster than someone who has never been at the track? Cool. I don't really care beyond asking you for the experience to back up your claim.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:31 PM   #69
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You're saying a stock mustang WOULDN'T get destroyed by a 265whp twin?

Jaden
It sounded like you were adding 265 whp to the twin, so around 400 whp.

But my response is the same nonetheless: Can you honestly claim, or better yet, prove to me that a stock Mustang GT would get destroyed by a 265 whp twin?
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:33 PM   #70
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265whp = 311hp factoring in 15% power train loss, which is about what a twin has (stock dyno around 170 on the mid to high side)

2760 (stock weight, a bit lighter than after the added weight of a turbo or sc) / 311 = 8.88 lb per hp

3705 / 435 = 8.5 lb per hp

So no, it wouldn't, if we're still bench racing.
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