New BRZ vs Z

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Hmmm... curious why you think that. AUC seems pretty relevant to me. All things being equal, I'd expect the car with the fat midrange to out-accelerate the car with the flat torque curve even if their peak power is exactly the same hp/rpm. On every upshift when the first car lands back in the midrange, it should pull ahead due to the torque advantage don't you think?

Area under the curve *is* important of course. But "torque to weight" is a useless stat, by itself. Doesn't tell you enough. Whereas *power* to weight, does. So yeah, the Miata's power curve being biased more to the midrange helps it there (as seen in the speed plots) but the FT86 more than makes up for it with more power up top, enough to compensate for its being 450 lb. heavier. Again, similar power-to-weight, similar overall acceleration. Put the Miata's lower-power engine in the 86 and it'd be a lot slower.

[dpfarr]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

I see this all the time on bike forums discussing expensive parts weighed in grams. Never thought I'd see it in a car forum talking about hundreds of pounds. I doubt you could find a twin owner with more than 50lbs they could lose. The biggies seem to drive trucks and SUVs.
Next suggestion: "Dump your girlfriend to save 120lbs!"

120lb girlfriend he says... I drive a brz not an M2 sir!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Not sure if it's been noted. But every recent article about the new Z puts the starting price in the mid-$40s. That motor 1 article was under their "rumors" section.

Not sure why anyone believed a twin turbo 6 was only going to be a more thousand more than the Twins.

https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/400z

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Not sure if it's been noted. But every recent article about the new Z puts the starting price in the mid-$40s. That motor 1 article was under their "rumors" section.

Not sure why anyone believed a twin turbo 6 was only going to be a more thousand more than the Twins.

https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/400z

Because car enthusiasts.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Not sure if it's been noted. But every recent article about the new Z puts the starting price in the mid-$40s. That motor 1 article was under their "rumors" section.

Not sure why anyone believed a twin turbo 6 was only going to be a more thousand more than the Twins.

https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/400z

Because it can EASILY be done.

EASILY.

You just have to disregard all the neccessary engineering R&D and treat it like lego.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Because it can EASILY be done.

EASILY.

You just have to disregard all the neccessary engineering R&D and treat it like lego.

The chassis an a carry-over, so minimal R&D. He engine is a carry over, so same. Nissan is desperate and needs something that will grab headlines and steal sales from the Supra (which is probably a better car). They'd be doing the same thing as the new Corvette, coming in at a surprising price with the "real" engine, then letting customers tack on options to get the price and spec up to where you'd expect.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

The chassis an a carry-over, so minimal R&D. He engine is a carry over, so same. Nissan is desperate and needs something that will grab headlines and steal sales from the Supra (which is probably a better car). They'd be doing the same thing as the new Corvette, coming in at a surprising price with the "real" engine, then letting customers tack on options to get the price and spec up to where you'd expect.

Just because the engine is a carry over, doesn't make it cheap. Q60 Red with that engine starts at 58.2K, and that's a pretty decent bang for the buck.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

The chassis an a carry-over, so minimal R&D. He engine is a carry over, so same. Nissan is desperate and needs something that will grab headlines and steal sales from the Supra (which is probably a better car). They'd be doing the same thing as the new Corvette, coming in at a surprising price with the "real" engine, then letting customers tack on options to get the price and spec up to where you'd expect.

Steal sales from the Supra?

Last I checked the Supra wasn't selling well. I don't think this is logical in any sense. If Nissan wanted to make money they wouldn't focus any resources on a model they know won't sell well.

Nissan should've dropped all their cars and focused on SUVs/CUVs.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Steal sales from the Supra?

Last I checked the Supra wasn't selling well. I don't think this is logical in any sense.

They might just TAKE sales that Supra left for them by not meeting expectations of:
1. Legit Japanese sports car (i.e. not a BMW)
2. Manual transmission at least available
3. Semi-reasonable $$$ (more like $40-45k vs. $50k+)

While the new Z isn't for me, it might just work out for them...

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by ZDan

They might just TAKE sales that Supra left for them by not meeting expectations of:
1. Legit Japanese sports car (i.e. not a BMW)
2. Manual transmission at least available
3. Semi-reasonable $$$ (more like $40-45k vs. $50k+)

While the new Z isn't for me, it might just work out for them...

I hope it works out. As of late there has been a little resurgence of these interesting and fun cars. Hopefully this makes a business case for something even cheaper from Nissan.. revived SX line..

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I hope it works out. As of late there has been a little resurgence of these interesting and fun cars. Hopefully this makes a business case for something even cheaper from Nissan.. revived SX line..

I was sorta intrigued by that funky looking IDx concept from a few years back, but of course it never materialized. To be honest I’m shocked this new Z has, but I’m glad.
Son and DIL just bought a Scat Pack Challenger with the Dynamics package. I considered pulling the trigger on a wide body one of those last year when they were discounted like crazy about two months into COVID. Ultimately decided against it. But this is the first time I’ve been able to really put one through its paces. I’m ASTONISHED at how that whale of a car handles and stops. Acceleration of course sorta goes without saying. Dodge claims a high 11 second 1/4 mile. I believe it. I’m still intrigued by it, and I have to say I’m still considering one in my future. One more fire-breathing dragon ICE before they go away. We’ll see.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Willpower

I was sorta intrigued by that funky looking IDx concept from a few years back, but of course it never materialized. To be honest I’m shocked this new Z has, but I’m glad.
Son and DIL just bought a Scat Pack Challenger with the Dynamics package. I considered pulling the trigger on a wide body one of those last year when they were discounted like crazy about two months into COVID. Ultimately decided against it. But this is the first time I’ve been able to really put one through its paces. I’m ASTONISHED at how that whale of a car handles and stops. Acceleration of course sorta goes without saying. Dodge claims a high 11 second 1/4 mile. I believe it. I’m still intrigued by it, and I have to say I’m still considering one in my future. One more fire-breathing dragon ICE before they go away. We’ll see.

I can't get behind the look of those iron clad boats, but I believe it that their performance could surprise some nay sayers.

That being said, the only Dodge I even remotely want to fondle is the Viper ACR. Boy, I never knew how much I loved that car until it got canned.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Not sure if it's been noted. But every recent article about the new Z puts the starting price in the mid-$40s. That motor 1 article was under their "rumors" section.

Not sure why anyone believed a twin turbo 6 was only going to be a more thousand more than the Twins.

https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/400z

The 370Z is 30,090 with a 3.7 liter V6 and you really believe a twin turbo 3.0 liter V6 will increase the price by 14,000? No way. Mid 30's starting price is logical for a base model.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The 370Z is 30,090

This is only the case because the Z has been around for 12 years instead of the originally planned 8 that the model was supposed to run.