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Old 09-15-2020, 11:02 AM   #1
Icecreamtruk
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Help with parts needed on a LS1 swap for race car

Hey guys, let me preface saying that this is not a post about budget (altho I may prefer to pay less of course), or about hypothetical ideas or about a yobo who spun a bearing and is thinking you can get a swap for 5k.

So with that out of the way, Im doing an LS1 swap for my time attack car (not registered, fully gutted and caged and trailered to the track). I got a very low mileage (26k miles) LS1 5.7L engine out of a C5 vette. I have most of what I need, I just need help figuring out a few more parts. Im not a mechanic but I usually do my maintenance and easier (not engine related) work on my car.

So far, I have questions regarding a few things.

1- I want a new wiring harness and ECM. I have the old one that came with the engine, but I dont feel right using 20 something old wires on a track car so I want to play it safe. All of the harness I find are for a DBC setup, not a DBW. My engine is DBW. I found a harness that sells with an ECM, again, for DBC https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...make/chevrolet. My question is, if I get that harness and I get a mechanical throttle body with the TPS, I should be able to use those, regardless of what the engine came with. Am I correct?

2- Fuel system. I've had fuel starvation on my setup, which is basically running 91 gas on a headers + tune setup, but the car has a lot of aero and there are 2 tracks where I would experience fuel starvation as low as half tank. So with that in mind, I though it might be a good time to switch to a fuel cell. Am I going the right way or should I get a different pump and some baffles and maybe a surge tank for the stock fuel system?

3- Transmission. In an ideal world, I would pair this up with a used t56 and I would be done. That ideal world is not canada, as I cannot find a single used t56 for the life of me (but I do find several other people looking for one...). New t56s from tremec are an arm and a leg, and I would be in the 5-6k ballpark when adding tranny, belhousing, clutch, bearing, flywheel. I found this kit from FABbot https://www.fabbotfab.com/collection...bundle-package and they also sell the bellhousing separate, so all in all I would be below 2.5k including the tranny cost. Would I need anything else? Im no expert but I seem to see everything needed there.

4- Electronics. Im getting rid of all of them in the car, except for the power steering, which would be looped to be on with key contact all the time. So with that in mind, I had though about just getting a digital dash like an aim or a racepak. Realistically, I only care about RPM, oil temp and pressure and water temp. Would it be over kill? What else could I get instead?

5- Oil. I have a baffled pan from CXRacing, it looks like this:

Is this baffling enough? should I add something to it maybe? Also, I heard from the mechanic that would be doing the work (so far) that it might also be needed to change the oil pump. Recommandations on what people do for say, hoosiers level of grip here?

6- Lastly, regarding the first question about the wiring harness. Those wiring harness specifically say they are for a given transmission and I see the T56 has 3 different locations where you could plug something from images I've seen. Would this be just for speedo gear selection data? Im assuming the harness and ECM will still work with those unplugged it just wont get any data from them, is this correct or will it keep the engine in some kind of limp mode permanently from missing data?

Thanks in advance, and I'll post some pics when the swap is done and some on track action and sorry for the long post. I've looked at what I can here in the forum and elsewhere. Im not doing the job (or most of it) but I do need to get the parts to whoever is doing the job basically.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:19 PM   #2
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Transmission: If you realy want a Track car and no Budget build, go with a T56 Magnum F. Only the gear ratio are reason enough in case of a track car. Improved shifting quality and stregth of this transmission comes on top. BTW, you cant take the clutch into the Budget calculation for a Magnum, since you will use the exactly same clutch with a regular T56. I installed a Magnum on my swap and did it for less than 5000USD including bellhousing, slave, shifter and 20% Import fee added. Again, slave and shifter will be necessary with a regular T56 also. In your case it should be possible for not much more than 4k. Minus the best price for a good regular T56 you would need otherwise you add arround 3k to your swap. Therefore you have Track friendly gear ratios and a brandnew, much stronger trans. I dont see any reason to use a regular T56 of its not already lurking in your backjard.

Fuel: For a Track car, go with a racing fuel tank. Otherwise two active pumps, one on the driver side as OEM and one additinal on the passenger are necessary. Main reason for starvation is, that the suction pump on the passenger side cannot bring enough fuel over the driveshaft to the "Real" pump. In addition, the suction pump is running with the fuel dumped by the Regulator. So it will Transport less wenn the engine consumes much of the Total Flow and nothing in the second of an actual starvation.

Oil: Im no Track racer, but absolutely fine with a OEM GTO pan and Improved Racing baffle.

Transmission wiring: You have reverse switch, output speed, reverse lockout, temperature, CAGS on any T56. As well connectors for the downstream O2 Sensors are in the OEM wiring harness towards the tranny, but I think you dont have any. Up to you what of those Sensors you use on a custom harness, but output speed would be minimum. Everything else could be left out if you dont have any Regulations about reverse lights etc.

Last edited by TRS; 09-15-2020 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:53 PM   #3
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Transmission: If you realy want a Track car and no Budget build, go with a T56 Magnum F. Only the gear ratio are reason enough in case of a track car. Improved shifting quality and stregth of this transmission comes on top. BTW, you cant take the clutch into the Budget calculation for a Magnum, since you will use the exactly same clutch with a regular T56. I installed a Magnum on my swap and did it for less than 5000USD including bellhousing, slave, shifter and 20% Import fee added. Again, slave and shifter will be necessary with a regular T56 also. In your case it should be possible for not much more than 4k. Minus the best price for a good regular T56 you would need otherwise you add arround 3k to your swap. Therefore you have Track friendly gear ratios and a brandnew, much stronger trans. I dont see any reason to use a regular T56 of its not already lurking in your backjard.

Fuel: For a Track car, go with a racing fuel tank. Otherwise two active pumps, one on the driver side as OEM and one additinal on the passenger are necessary. Main reason for starvation is, that the suction pump on the passenger side cannot bring enough fuel over the driveshaft to the "Real" pump. In addition, the suction pump is running with the fuel dumped by the Regulator. So it will Transport less wenn the engine consumes much of the Total Flow and nothing in the second of an actual starvation.

Oil: Im no Track racer, but absolutely fine with a OEM GTO pan and Improved Racing baffle.

Transmission wiring: You have reverse switch, output speed, reverse lockout, temperature, CAGS on any T56. As well connectors for the downstream O2 Sensors are in the OEM wiring harness towards the tranny, but I think you dont have any. Up to you what of those Sensors you use on a custom harness, but output speed would be minimum. Everything else could be left out if you dont have any Regulations about reverse lights etc.
Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. Im heavily leaning into the fuel cell as well myself. For the transmission, I was actually considering an AR5 with an adapter. The thing is, my only real option is a magnum T56. You cant get a normal t56 around here, there are none. So my only option is a brand new magnum which runs me into the 5-6k USD when shipping, import and taxes come in. Money is not the main factor, but if I can save several thousands for little to no benefit I will take it. If I can ignore the signals for the tranny thats fine, I dont actually need speed readings, you never look at that stuff when driving.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:27 PM   #4
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Again, dont think the Magnum will hit that number. Currently you can source a Magnum F plus GM bell for arround 3.600USD. No clue about the import fees for canada, but I would assume less compared to Germany and definately lower shipment costs. Anything beyond that will be needed with another transmission also, so nothing what means added costs if you take it that way.



I´m very satisfied with the T56 until now. Currently I´m manufacturing my own custom shifter for the Magnum F. Used a shaky, old OEM GTO shifter until now, but had still pretty good shift feeling. And this while it was possible to move the shifter handle more than half an inch before any movement was made at the shifting rod. I expect this thing will get pretty precise and responsive with a reasonable shifter.


Dont want to sell something, just my two cents...
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:42 PM   #5
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Wiring - There are a lot of places to do wiring. You can still do all of it yourself and use new components, too. The site LT1SWAP.com has all of the schematics and step by step how to turn most LS harnesses to a standalone..super easy, enen if you buy new wires and pins. Wiring specialties does good harnesses, or a full Holley Terminator X setup might be something to look at. That would integrate your "racepack" screen and you wont have to hire a tuner, as it self learns. as far as DBW/DBC you cant just throw a DBC intake and TB on a DBW engine. There are some crossover years, but when they went from DBC to DBW they eliminated the computer chip in the computer to run the IAC motor, so it just wont work. Google Sloppy Mechanics Wiki for a lot of good info on budget ways to swap and what to look for.


Don't you guys have LKQ or any other auto recycler there? They are huge here in the US and can be a source for a T56. If you come across one, make sure its a 98 or newer, older ones require more to work w LS motors. If you saerch FB LSX pages, you can get one for 1000-1500 they will need to be rebuilt. al ot of people use the CD09 trans from Nissan with adapters, too.


I had an aeromotive stealth w A1000 pump in my last car, they are nice. There are some companies that make drop in tanks for the 86 in the spare tire well, too.


I've built a few LS swapped cars, so feel free to ask away if you have any questions.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:47 AM   #6
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@LSX_Corolla thanks for the info. I've looked around in most scrapyards I know of, Kenny U-pull or similar stuff as well and I find very little or nothing. Some firebirds and camaros here and there but most of them autos. I think even tho canada is close, the lower density of population makes it so that there's that many less cars I guess? Anyhow, I have an idea of my options here, I'll keep looking, not in any kind of rush.

I looked up and found what you mention about the EMC not being compatible at all between DBC and DBW engines. But my question is, if I buy a DBC full harness that also comes with an ECM for it and bolt a DBC throttle body, it should work right? The ECM is the only thing that cares what the throttle body is doing, right?
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:51 AM   #7
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I looked up and found what you mention about the EMC not being compatible at all between DBC and DBW engines. But my question is, if I buy a DBC full harness that also comes with an ECM for it and bolt a DBC throttle body, it should work right? The ECM is the only thing that cares what the throttle body is doing, right?

Yes, if you buy a DBC harness and ECM they should work together.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:05 AM   #8
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Improved racing baffle on a GTO pan will NOT provide consistent oil pressure at 1.4 sustained lateral G's like they claim in their marketing material. At least for me it didn't. I've heard the LS1/LS6 have less oiling issues on track than LS2/3 but I would for sure have an accusump and would start budgeting for an affordable dry sump. After having my 1st LS3 only last 10 track days I learned this the hard way. I was only on 255 NT01 tires and I'd say I'm only an average driver. So no racing slicks and I'm not a blistering fast driver.

Hopefully you will have better luck with an LS1
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:04 AM   #9
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Improved racing baffle on a GTO pan will NOT provide consistent oil pressure at 1.4 sustained lateral G's like they claim in their marketing material. At least for me it didn't. I've heard the LS1/LS6 have less oiling issues on track than LS2/3 but I would for sure have an accusump and would start budgeting for an affordable dry sump. After having my 1st LS3 only last 10 track days I learned this the hard way. I was only on 255 NT01 tires and I'd say I'm only an average driver. So no racing slicks and I'm not a blistering fast driver.

Hopefully you will have better luck with an LS1
Do you have any further/more detailed Info about that? What is the critical G Level? As I said, Im no Track racer but I achieve about 1.2 Gs also while Road driving. I run a pretty similar Setup: LS3, GTO Pan, Melling Pump, Improved Baffel. I didnt See any pressure Drops in my HPT logs. But since I plan to take the car on the track in the upcoming season I want to be prepared. But to decide for a way to go I would need some more precise description of the issues leading to the loss of your LS. Thanks.
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Old 09-28-2020, 04:35 PM   #10
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Improved racing baffle on a GTO pan will NOT provide consistent oil pressure at 1.4 sustained lateral G's like they claim in their marketing material. At least for me it didn't. I've heard the LS1/LS6 have less oiling issues on track than LS2/3 but I would for sure have an accusump and would start budgeting for an affordable dry sump. After having my 1st LS3 only last 10 track days I learned this the hard way. I was only on 255 NT01 tires and I'd say I'm only an average driver. So no racing slicks and I'm not a blistering fast driver.

Hopefully you will have better luck with an LS1
Thanks for the info, I think I made a mistake by buying an oil pan with baffles instead of going with a dry sump setup right away, (do it once, do it right). Im crossing my fingers hoping that the engine will hold on street tires, but as it is, I can consistently generate 1.5 to 1.6G on about every corner on RE71R tires (255), with banked corners going as high as 1.9G. I bought a melling pump (increased pressure, normal flow) and since the pan has extra capacity, im really just wishing for it to hold together. I think for the first tests on track I'll use some less sticky but harder lasting tire options (like a Victra VR1 or RS4 or something like that) and either add an accusump or drysump setup later down the road.

Quick question, were you running an oil cooler on your LS3? Sometimes oil related failures that point towards starvation start with oil too hot that gets too thin and it might've survived with cooler oil.

@TRS Also worth considering, a peak 2Gs of lateral is not bad if it lasts only a fraction of a second. A 1.4-1.6G sustained for 15-20seconds on a banking on a road course is alot worse. So its also worth noting where you plan to race, it might hold at lateral loads where it has failed for other people elsewhere.
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:33 PM   #11
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Sure, thats true. Anyway I'm very surprised about the Gs given here. I'm not able to pass 1.2G speaking about constant load. Peak are nothing to realy consider, I agree.

A GT3-RS, a well engineered car with very few compromises concerning track capability, is achieving up to 1.4-1.5Gs on good semis on a turn like Hockenheim/Sachskurve, which is slightly banked. To be honest, I have no clue how a 86 Chassis, especially with a LS, is able to achieve numbers like 1.6Gs on a flat track. But thats maybe something only the race pros know about.

In my case, Im not going to race any ovals or comparable tracks. While street driving Im able to achieve 1.2Gs often, but not more. (besides peaks) Up to that Level I didnt record any oil pressure drops in my logs. Lets see what will happen when I track the car on semis. I wouldnt expect more than 1.4Gs, but that might be wrong. To see what early symptoms of oil starvation could look alike, Im still interessted in some more details or logs of a LS with baffled Improved GTO pan.
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #12
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A GT3-RS, a well engineered car with very few compromises concerning track capability, is achieving up to 1.4-1.5Gs on good semis on a turn like Hockenheim/Sachskurve, which is slightly banked. To be honest, I have no clue how a 86 Chassis, especially with a LS, is able to achieve numbers like 1.6Gs on a flat track. But thats maybe something only the race pros know about.
Those numbers are with the FA20 still in it. Swap is going to happen after I finish this time attack season (last event the 11th october). Im sure with the LS increasing the weight and center of gravity's height of the car, the handling will suffer a bit. Also, my car has heavy aero, here's a picture of turn 1 at tremblant, sustained 1.5G, peak 2.2G, its a 110mph turn that goes uphill so that helps it a bit, its flat out, I could probably go faster thru it but thats all the speed I managed to reach in the short pit straight.

Edit: Corrected numbers for sustained after looking at my datalogger for that session.

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Old 09-28-2020, 06:39 PM   #13
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The picture would have been enough.

I have ZERO further questions. If this is heavy, what would be extreme?

Good aspect with that: The 1.2Gs for my German (!) street legal, fully equipped, LS swaped 86 seems not that bad anymore...

But after that: If you are working on this level, dont make unnecessary prisioners and go with a T56 Magnum F.

Also, seeing that, I also would say you definately should think about a dry sump or at least accusump.
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:52 PM   #14
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Yes, im still collecting parts. Work on the car actually starts after xmass, so still some time to fiddle out the last few details and some of the budget is still free for some goodies (luckily for me, lock down brought me more work, not less). Thanks for your input on the thread
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