Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by mx555

There's a ton of general advise floating around; drive slow, keep your distance, try not to stop on a hill, don't keep your rpms too high.

We have a torsen differential, they don't work well on ice. Pull the e-brake up slightly when you're stuck or on ice. This will force the diff to apply power to both wheels.

You don't need to do this. The TC will activate even if its switched off.

In the old days we used the e brake as an el cheapo LSD but most modern cars use TC instead.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by calidus

After putting a 100 miles of city driving on the car I am getting much more comfortable(stupid weather has prevented me from driving it as much as I would like). I still need a lot of practice on hills.

I was wonder if I could get some general advice when it comes to driving a manual when you get in shitty situations? Things like trying to avoid accidents and sliding on ice.

Same as an automatic except you have more direct control. With the drivetrain locked through the clutch you can easily steer either end of the car. With the gear you want locked in you have precise throttle control, although the automatic version of this car can do this also. Find a wide open empty snowy parking lot if you can, switch off the TC and experiment until you feel comfortable. Frankly, it is the rwd you need to get used to, manual or automatic are approximately the same to drive nowadays.

A very important tip that could save your life some day is to remember the clutch can be pushed in to save a skid. An automatic would have to be slipped into neutral which is tricky to do in full counter steer (you tend to have both hands on the wheel when in panic mode). If the drive wheels slide pushing in the clutch should restore their grip. Lifting off the gas to achieve the same result can spin a rwd car.

Think about the friction circle. Each tire can only do do much in any direction. If you are sliding all four wheels, common enough in winter conditions, you don't want to try to use brakes or driving force. Maximum grip for attitude control occurs while coasting. If you are skidding you cannot accelerate, brake or steer until you stop sliding.

On the other hand, if you have really over done it then your brakes are your friend especially if you have ABS. If you're going to crash brake as hard as you can and steer, just as you would in any car. The slower you are going when you hit something, the better.

Don't believe any crapola that ABS doesn't work on ice etc, it does and better than all but truly expert winter drivers. Even if it doesn't feel like its working it is and you can and should still steer the car. The ABS will apportion what little grip there may be to the two tasks of slowing and turning, automatically and perfectly.

Oh and about those hills. Going up is easy because if you can't get traction you can't get further up the hill. All the danger is going down those slippery hills. Once you pass the top and start down you are going to crash if you couldn't drive up that same hill. Remember, uphill is easy. All the trouble happens going downhill. In really bad conditions it is wiser to stop at the top of the hill and get out (assuming it is safe to walk) to assess grip before commencing your downward journey. That's what white water canoeists do when running an unfamiliar river. Generally speaking if you can't walk down the hill you can't drive down it unless you really know what you're doing and your tires are better than your shoes. Fit good studless winter tires. Once you're moving down the hill it will be too late to realize you can't stop.

[meeskee2]

Originally Posted by _______

Another bad habit you should add is using the clutch to hold a car at an incline for long periods of time. Can't tell you how many manual drivers ive seen that rock their cars back and forth on inclines.

Ive beeen driving manuals ever since I learned how to drive 15 years ago. In the begining I used to do this all the time and it took me a while to break the habit. It's not good for the clutch.

[mx555]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You don't need to do this. The TC will activate even if its switched off.

In the old days we used the e brake as an el cheapo LSD but most modern cars use TC instead.

True, I forgot about the ol' ABS diff

[calidus]

Welp left turns from a complete stop across two lanes of traffic still make me nervous, I stalled three times in a row on the way back from lunch. Between stalling and not really knowing how fast I am going to be going after I release the clutch I am paranoid about getting T boned. I need to go find a parking lot and just practice shifting for an hour or two.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by calidus

Welp left turns from a complete stop across two lanes of traffic still make me nervous, I stalled three times in a row on the way back from lunch. Between stalling and not really knowing how fast I am going to be going after I release the clutch I am paranoid about getting T boned. I need to go find a parking lot and just practice shifting for an hour or two.

I find a lot of people learning to drive stick always want to rush themselves out into traffic to "prove themselves". Whenever, I am asked to teach someone stick shift in my car, I always tell them I let them out on the street when I am comfortable (my car, my rules) - not the other way round.

I get them to do launches on my command in less within reasonable time frame.

You should do the same with someone telling you to go at random times to see how you fare.

[SirBrass]

Here's a trick to NOT stalling from a start.

When your mind says "go!", don't automatically start clutching out. Instead, gas in. Get it up to about 2.5-3k and slowly (SLOWLY) let out the clutch. When you start to feel the clutch grab, reapply throttle gently while letting the clutch all the way out.

Do this in an empty parking lot. it'll get you acclimated to what it feels like in the clutch pedal stroke when the clutch begins to grab and is in full grab. It lets you gently accelerate the vehicle from the stop to get it going and get you into the intersection with velocity such that it won't stall when you raise the throttle to shift.

[calidus]

Originally Posted by Frost

I find a lot of people learning to drive stick always want to rush themselves out into traffic to "prove themselves". Whenever, I am asked to teach someone stick shift in my car, I always tell them I let them out on the street when I am comfortable (my car, my rules) - not the other way round.

I get them to do launches on my command in less within reasonable time frame.

You should do the same with someone telling you to go at random times to see how you fare.

This is a great idea.

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Here's a trick to NOT stalling from a start.

When your mind says "go!", don't automatically start clutching out. Instead, gas in. Get it up to about 2.5-3k and slowly (SLOWLY) let out the clutch. When you start to feel the clutch grab, reapply throttle gently while letting the clutch all the way out.

Do this in an empty parking lot. it'll get you acclimated to what it feels like in the clutch pedal stroke when the clutch begins to grab and is in full grab. It lets you gently accelerate the vehicle from the stop to get it going and get you into the intersection with velocity such that it won't stall when you raise the throttle to shift.

Time Out I can actually give it that much gas without murdering my clutch? I have been scared of murder my clutch so I have been keeping it around 1k rpm.

[dbrandt01]

Yeah man you can. On average when I try to go quick I go up to 2200 or so and let the clutch. Never had a problem. My father did that trick Frost did. My dad made up mock situations for me to have to go and it helps. You learn though as time goes on where you can get started at 500rpms like I can do now almost every time. I'm far from perfect, but stop and go traffic made me learn real quick.

[calidus]

So I think I finally get how this works. The smoothness of my start is based on how smooth I can release the clutch? So in theory I can have a really smooth start at 5k rpms, if I was really good.

The amount of wear on the clutch is based on how fast the engine is turning relative to the transmission and how much time the clutch spends between fully pressed and fully depressed?

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by calidus

Time Out I can actually give it that much gas without murdering my clutch? I have been scared of murder my clutch so I have been keeping it around 1k rpm.

Yup.

You blip the throttle up to that speed, keep it there or back off, and then you let out the clutch till you feel the clutch (not the car) grab. it'll feel like you're beginning to connect the engine to the output.

Now, you'll murder your clutch slowly if you dump the clutch. But a smooth easing out and you'll be fine. Once you learn what it feels like for it to grab from a stop, you'll be able to engage at lower revs as you learn how to modulate the throttle with the clutch in order to smoothly start off.

Edit: I would NOT try and start from a stop at 5krpms. You WILL induce driveline shock or wheel spin if you don't stall (meaning you did it right). Good for hooning. Not good for your rubber or your clutch.

You want enough power to get the car started, not enough to break loose the rear wheels.

[ChirpChirpChirp]

From a full stop it's OK to hold the throttle at 2-2.5k RPM and only use the clutch to regulate your start. Yes, you'll be slipping the clutch more and have a little extra wear, but you won't be stalling it out in the middle of an intersection either. Once you have more practice you'll be able to engage 1st gear from a lower RPM.

As an "experienced" manual driver, I find that I blip the throttle just as I start releasing the clutch pedal. Then I ease onto the throttle as I continue to release the clutch. I find that it gives me a smooth start and the blip helps prevent a stall while still letting me engage 1st at relatively low RPMs.

Edit: What he said ^

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by ChirpChirpChirp

From a full stop it's OK to hold the throttle at 2-2.5k RPM and only use the clutch to regulate your start. Yes, you'll be slipping the clutch more and have a little extra wear, but you won't be stalling it out in the middle of an intersection either. Once you have more practice you'll be able to engage 1st gear from a lower RPM.

As an "experienced" manual driver, I find that I blip the throttle just as I start releasing the clutch pedal. Then I ease onto the throttle as I continue to release the clutch. I find that it gives me a smooth start and the blip helps prevent a stall while still letting me engage 1st at relatively low RPMs.

Edit: What he said ^

What he said ^

[Frost]

2.5-3k blip isn't going to fry your clutch so long as you don't mash the gas while grannying off the clutch. It's going to seem very foreign and awkward initially but once you get the 'feel' of the clutch grab point and the gas you need, you will do the two together like it's perfectly natural.

If you are having a hard time doing this or getting used to it, here's a good exercise to do in a FLAT (ie: no slope, zero gradient) parking lot:

1- Start the car in neutral
2- Clutch in and put it in 1st
3- Chop off your right leg (just kidding, but your right leg should be OUT of the equation - don't use it at all)
4- Let out the clutch slowly and find out where the clutch bites, do it enough to get the car going forward.
5- Clutch in and brake to stop

Repeat step 4 and 5 to the point where you can instantly find the grab point. This may take a few minutes to even a few days depending on your car. Don't be embarassed for the latter - it took me a few minutes on my dad's Corolla, my old MR2 and my current DD but took me DAYS for my friend's Accord and TSX. Weird grab point.

Once you do that, do it again with gas to get going faster.