Spec Twin?

[ApexEight]

Wait you don't have to buy the parts from TireRack, right? How would they even enforce that lol. Save receipts?

I'm assuming you can get the parts wherever you please but TR will have the package with a slight discount.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I was actually reading the rules yesterday and the toe arms are STX legal if you're using an adjustable LCA and not a modification to the upper arm (I think whiteline offers a camber bushing). Either it was changed in the last year or so or we're both crazy.

Where are toe arms allowed? I'd so like to not mess with the eccentrics...

I'm a bit lost on the allure of the spec rules outlined, but hey... It may play out nicely.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cjd

Where are toe arms allowed? I'd so like to not mess with the eccentrics...

I'm a bit lost on the allure of the spec rules outlined, but hey... It may play out nicely.

14.8.H.1
On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both.

Lowering springs and alignment improvement make sense, spec tire might be the thing that brings cost down depending on what they pick. Wonder if the RS4's are good for as many runs as the RE71R/BFGRS, I seem to remember people would junk RS3's after 50-60 runs, but I wasn't too involved then so I might be wrong on that.

[DaWorstPlaya]

Does this class really make sense?

How many twins show up for a local event? In my region, combined between CS, DS and STX, you may see 6 any given day. Out of which 4 may be the older twins between STX and DS. So at a regional event optimistically I might see 2-3 twins competing in SCC.

Currently in my region, DS sees anywhere from 8-12 competitors in an event with very close competition. Those of you for this class might want to think about how many people you may or may not be competing against regionally.

Is this what we really want? What happens when people leave move on to other cars in the future and participation numbers go down? This almost seems like a solution seeking a problem.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

.... I seem to remember people would junk RS3's after 50-60 runs, but I wasn't too involved then so I might be wrong on that.

Shoot, the RS3v2's I got for my e36 BMW (when it was still my STX car) like 3.5 years ago are still on the car lol. Dozens of autox runs and at least 7-8 track days. Still have more tread than my 50 run RE71R's

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by justinco

Shoot, the RS3v2's I got for my e36 BMW (when it was still my STX car) like 3.5 years ago are still on the car lol. Dozens of autox runs and at least 7-8 track days. Still have more tread than my 50 run RE71R's

I'll take a low tread tire with good compound over a tire that's heat cycled out but has tons of tread any day of the week.

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Wonder if the RS4's are good for as many runs as the RE71R/BFGRS......

the spec tire for the class hasn't been announced yet, could be the Nexen, or the BFG, or the Bridgestones, or the Hankooks, or something else. Press release says the spec tire will be announced later this year.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Thanks for correcting me, I misinterpreted the presser. However you can compete with OE components and not be fully prepared. So you could have a car legal for both classes.

Also tire rack is not the sole supplier, but the discount probably makes it the best option.

Let's be realistic here though. Having a car legal for DS and the spec class makes you not very competitive for either.

Not the sole supplier, no. But I was talking with an SEB member over dinner and he said there are some things that won't be acceptable. For example.... You cannot send in your current Konis to get them sealed/approved by Koni and then sent back out to you. They want everyone to buy the sealed version for the spec class. He reminded me that this is also about the sponsors of the class. They want you buying everything from Tire Rack so either parts will be slightly different enough that you need the ones Tire Rack sells or they'll be priced at a point where you wouldn't go elsewhere.

The reason we don't have a tire yet is because the manufacturers are probably going to have to bid to see who will supply the tire.

Last thing is it's likely there will be specific contingencies just for the spec class.

Those of you saying it wouldn't have the competition and/or wouldn't be worth competing in might be looking at this the wrong way though. A spec class means one car, one set of parts, and no excuses/BS. If you lose you know it's because the other guy was faster; not because their car is an overdog in the class or the course favored them. That appeals to a lot of people (myself included). It also solves a huge problem with the Twins in Pro Solos. They're horrible in DS with the WRX and Camaro up against them. In a spec class it'll never be an issue.

I like it as a solution to some things but am not looking forward to spending more money to prepare for a class that might not be permanent. Maybe we should take a poll of how many people around here plan to participate in it?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Locust

Let's be realistic here though. Having a car legal for DS and the spec class makes you not very competitive for either.

Not the sole supplier, no. But I was talking with an SEB member over dinner and he said there are some things that won't be acceptable. For example.... You cannot send in your current Konis to get them sealed/approved by Koni and then sent back out to you. They want everyone to buy the sealed version for the spec class. He reminded me that this is also about the sponsors of the class. They want you buying everything from Tire Rack so either parts will be slightly different enough that you need the ones Tire Rack sells or they'll be priced at a point where you wouldn't go elsewhere.

The reason we don't have a tire yet is because the manufacturers are probably going to have to bid to see who will supply the tire.

Last thing is it's likely there will be specific contingencies just for the spec class.

Those of you saying it wouldn't have the competition and/or wouldn't be worth competing in might be looking at this the wrong way though. A spec class means one car, one set of parts, and no excuses/BS. If you lose you know it's because the other guy was faster; not because their car is an overdog in the class or the course favored them. That appeals to a lot of people (myself included). It also solves a huge problem with the Twins in Pro Solos. They're horrible in DS with the WRX and Camaro up against them. In a spec class it'll never be an issue.

I like it as a solution to some things but am not looking forward to spending more money to prepare for a class that might not be permanent. Maybe we should take a poll of how many people around here plan to participate in it?

There's a very good chance I'll end up in this class, as it ticks most of the boxes I'm looking for in mods.

My one caveat for me is the lack of an oil cooler allowance. I know a lot of people seem to be annoyed with me for continuing to harp on this point, but I still hold that it's a legitimate one. The advantage an oil cooler poses in autox is essentially non-existent. However, it's paramount for reliable track days. Giving this allowance, which I believe could be written in the same way comfort allowances are, would create a solo class that SCCA could very easily cross promote with TNIA and their PDX programs.

It would be the do-it-all car that you can drive to autox or the track, drive competitively/enjoyably, drive home with everything loaded into the car, and then jump in and take to work the next day too. If they were to go even further and partner with 86 Cup in their PDX program, you'd have a car that would be competitive in their Street class (tire choice dependent) and then you're doing TT too! That seems like a pretty ideal situation IMO.

I understand there are probably some reasons why this couldn't work, but I have trouble thinking of many that are really legitimate. If someone can enlighten me to a solid reason why this wouldn't work, I'd be happy to hear it.

[Twinz]

I hope my current CS TRD (with OTS Koni's) setup can run in the class under the factory street allowance. It would be nice to lower the car a little more on the eibach springs, but I'm willing to get a set of spec wheels/tires and take my chances...and not spend the extra time and money on another set of springs and shocks and installation.

I'm glad they set this up and intend to run in the class.

*edit* and I think coolers need to be allowed for all classes.

[ApexEight]

Originally Posted by Twinz

I hope my current CS TRD (with OTS Koni's) setup can run in the class under the factory street allowance. It would be nice to lower the car a little more on the eibach springs, but I'm willing to get a set of spec wheels/tires and take my chances...and not spend the extra time and money on another set of springs and shocks and installation.

I'm glad they set this up and intend to run in the class.

*edit* and I think coolers need to be allowed for all classes.

Aren't the TRD springs identical to the Pro Kit springs?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Twinz

I hope my current CS TRD (with OTS Koni's) setup can run in the class under the factory street allowance. It would be nice to lower the car a little more on the eibach springs, but I'm willing to get a set of spec wheels/tires and take my chances...and not spend the extra time and money on another set of springs and shocks and installation.

I'm glad they set this up and intend to run in the class.

*edit* and I think coolers need to be allowed for all classes.

The way I'm reading/understanding it, it's either OEM or Spec parts (which is where the Street allowance comes in). I don't think people can run on current DS/CS Konis.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

The way I'm reading/understanding it, it's either OEM or Spec parts (which is where the Street allowance comes in). I don't think people can run on current DS/CS Konis.

The only reason the TRD springs are allowed in CS now is because they are considered port-installed "OEM" parts right?

However, if I have to change the Koni's, then changing the springs is not really extra work.

Unless the spec Koni's are a different part number, I don't see how they would not be allowed. Same part is the same.

*edit* if it's all spec or all street...I might be able to get by with my 7". Hmmmm. I think the inability to get spec camber will be the main disadvantage.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Twinz

The only reason the TRD springs are allowed in CS now is because they are considered port-installed "OEM" parts right?

However, if I have to change the Koni's, then changing the springs is not really extra work.

Unless the spec Koni's are a different part number, I don't see how they would not be allowed. Same part is the same.

*edit* if it's all spec or all street...I might be able to get by with my 7" wheels. Hmmmm.

From what it sounds like, the Konis will be a spec sealed product that will be sent with shock dynos, to ensure uniformity across the class. I'm guessing they'll be a different PN.