Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Of course, its a question of how you want to "sell your soul". Most Porsche faithful hate the turbo 4s and don't care that they have more torque than the previous flat 6s. That Porsche is adding the 6 back into more and more 718s (despite almost no torque gain) should be pretty telling.

Buying a new Porsche has always been on the bucket list but when they went to the turbo, I nixed that and bought a boat instead. Now that I'll be back in the market for a sport coupe, I'll be perfectly happy if they only offer a NA in the GR86. If they went turbo, that would nix my decision to purchase as well. I'm also OK with what the spy shots are revealing, subtle changes although some think they are major. I'd also be OK if they didn't make any changes for 2021/22 since there are few options in this segment and the 86 seems to check off most of my wants.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Backing up even further into the conversation, I don't think Porsche "got a pass" with calling the 718 an all new model. Personally, I think its pretty dumb and so do a lot of other Porsche owners. The 718 is not a 982, its really a 981.2. But for some reason Porsche insists on the change. To that end though, you can't slam them for it and compare to a supposed 2nd gen BRZ that's only slightly revised, b/c the power figures for the 718 went up a LOT over the 981, specifically torque.

Of course, its a question of how you want to "sell your soul". Most Porsche faithful hate the turbo 4s and don't care that they have more torque than the previous flat 6s. That Porsche is adding the 6 back into more and more 718s (despite almost no torque gain) should be pretty telling.

People sometimes they don't know what they want. When 987 and 981 was under powered, they were complaining that Porsche didn't add power to not disturb the sales of the 911. When they finally got a turbo and serious amounts of torque, then they were complaining that they lost the flat 6 soul and sound. The difference is that Porsche can decide for itself and they don't get lost into endless discussions with another company.

From my point of view, it depends under what point of view someone wants to see the 2nd generation 86/BRZ. If he wants to see it as a natural "evolution" of what it was offered back in 2011, then it is OK. If he wants to see it as the latest technological product that Toyota can offer nowadays in an entry level sports car then it is NOT OK. There are far ahead comparing to 2011 and unfortunately most of the things will not go into this new car. Value for money in year 2021 will be terrible.

[bcj]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Toyota didn't have an issue to provide a 270hp engine in the GR Yaris. They don't care about the Supra 2.0. Different car segments and price points.

Originally Posted by wbradley

The cars are not cross shopped and the GR Yaris will likely have a decent profit as a lower volume econo halo.

The 4-wheelie Yaris seems to be a "Let's see if we can do this!" sort of exercise on a smaller scale than the entirely new GT86 was overall.

The greater proportion of new Yar-i are all going to be FWD world econoboxes and will sell very well - in places other than the US.
We won't get any. Toyota axed the model here.

I can appreciate a newer version of my old Civic S hatchback that Honda won't sell here anymore either.

Basso-Profundo eructations to both companies that won't build what I would like to buy.
The 86 has been an island in a sea of meh over three decades.

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

From my point of view, it depends under what point of view someone wants to see the 2nd generation 86/BRZ. If he wants to see it as a natural "evolution" of what it was offered back in 2011, then it is OK. If he wants to see it as the latest technological product that Toyota can offer nowadays in an entry level sports car then it is NOT OK. There are far ahead comparing to 2011 and unfortunately most of the things will not go into this new car. Value for money in year 2021 will be terrible.

POV is at the heart of every buyer and value is subjective. I owned a BMW E92 and when they "advanced" and went to the F32 platform, much of what made the "ultimate" driving machine ultimate was lost and so was my taste for BMW. Haven't driven a G22 so don't know if they regained what was lost.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by bcj

The greater proportion of new Yar-i are all going to be FWD world econoboxes and will sell very well - in places other than the US.

Actually, Australian pricing for the new Yaris was released yesterday, and I don’t think they are going to sell well at all. Toyota have priced it absurdly. For context, the base version of the just superseded Yaris was about AU$16k driveaway. The driveaway for the new base Yaris is about AU$25k! That’s not a mistake, that is a $9k price rise. Utterly insane, and now several versions of Yaris are in competition, pricewise, with the Corolla. I think Toyota have signed the death warrant for the Yaris here in Australia.

I fear the crazy price hike for the new Yaris could signal a general increase in Toyota prices across the board, as each model is updated. Toyota are boasting about all the advanced safety kit in even base versions of the new Yaris, but it comes at a steep cost that the consumer has to pay, afterall. Admittedly, economy car prices have stayed relatively still for a couple of decades, and have not kept up with inflation - a Corolla today for example costs just a little more than it did in the 90s, but when adjusted for inflation, is actually thousands cheaper than it used to be. I guess that couldn’t last forever.

[bcj]

Eek!

They'll still sell more FW than 4X overall.

What with the world melting into a puddle it looks like motoring life will be Grayhound coaches with everyone peddling away to get anywhere.

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Most car journalists are a bunch of spoiled brats. Everything always has to be faster and better and cheaper.

Yeah. How dare they expect the next gen to be better than the current car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Coaster

Yeah. How dare they expect the next gen to be better than the current car.

I think his point was faster, better and cheaper.
And they don't want a little faster or s tiny bit better they want it at several levels of magnitude.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I think his point was faster, better and cheaper.
And they don't want a little faster or s tiny bit better they want it at several levels of magnitude.

Yea in my opinion a new version of a car should be incrementally faster, incrementally better, and around the same price as the previous one, adjusted for median buying power. Anything else is not sustainable across multiple generations. The car will either start competing in a different segment and/or it will lose the core concept of what it used to be. BMW M3 for example, started out as a fun to drive capable sports coupe, and now it’s a fast luxury GT.

[Lantanafrs2]

My wish would be for the acceleration numbers to be low 14s in the quarter and high 5s 0-60. Not that it matters. Just for ego.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

My wish would be for the acceleration numbers to be low 14s in the quarter and high 5s 0-60. Not that it matters. Just for ego.

That’s totally doable with a bit more torque I think. A stock Gen1 on E85 and PS4s can probably pull that off.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

My wish would be for the acceleration numbers to be low 14s in the quarter and high 5s 0-60. Not that it matters. Just for ego.

thats too damn slow.
I needs to be low 3's 0-60 at least....

Ideally, 2 seconds....

[nikitopo]

Here is another evidence why Subaru don't want to disturb the sales of its WRX and STI cars with a turbo BRZ:

Subaru of America delivered 21,838 WRX and STI performance models to customers from August 2019 through July 2020.

In the compact sports car segment, Subaru is winning big. Hyundai delivered 8,327 Veloster models, BMW 2 Series (8,015), Mazda MX-5 Miata (7,753), Infiniti Q60 (5,043), Lexus RC (4,591), Volkswagen Golf R (4,223 - 2019), Toyota 86 (3,398), Toyota Supra (2,884), Fiat 124 Spider, (2,646), Nissan 370Z (2,384), Subaru BRZ, (2,334), and Porsche Taycan (130.)

Honda does not split out the Civic Type R from regular Civic sales, so we can’t provide specific numbers. A source close to Honda said in 2018 Honda sold 4,100 Civic Type R, performance models. The Subaru WRX and STI were also the best selling sports car in 2019.

Source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/hot-...ct-sports-cars

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Here is another evidence why Subaru don't want to disturb the sales of its WRX and STI cars with a turbo BRZ:

Subaru of America delivered 21,838 WRX and STI performance models to customers from August 2019 through July 2020.

In the compact sports car segment, Subaru is winning big. Hyundai delivered 8,327 Veloster models, BMW 2 Series (8,015), Mazda MX-5 Miata (7,753), Infiniti Q60 (5,043), Lexus RC (4,591), Volkswagen Golf R (4,223 - 2019), Toyota 86 (3,398), Toyota Supra (2,884), Fiat 124 Spider, (2,646), Nissan 370Z (2,384), Subaru BRZ, (2,334), and Porsche Taycan (130.)

Honda does not split out the Civic Type R from regular Civic sales, so we can’t provide specific numbers. A source close to Honda said in 2018 Honda sold 4,100 Civic Type R, performance models. The Subaru WRX and STI were also the best selling sports car in 2019.

Source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/hot-...ct-sports-cars

That's fine but one is a two door coupe and the other is a four door sedan. Different market with different buyers. They could be identical in power to weight and not matter IMO but I don't work for Subaru, so. I would never consider a WRX/STI because I don't like the look.

I think the 86 is fine the way it is but it's time for a "remodel" I'm curious to see what they come up with.