Engine torque damper ?

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

FWD? FR-S?

Well no, smartass go back to op where i asked if they had a usage on rwd.

My follow up question was then why we use better motor mount that reduce engine movement and why such a thinf coulsnt be used if it does the same thing. But keep your constructive comment coming, they keep me entertained

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Simon99

Well no, smartass go back to op where i asked if they had a usage on rwd.

My follow up question was then why we use better motor mount that reduce engine movement and why such a thinf coulsnt be used if it does the same thing. But keep your constructive comment coming, they keep me entertained

I did read your OP. That's what is so funny.

[EAGLE5]

People buy all sorts of useless shit. Get yourself a torque damper and a grounding kit then watch how awesome your car is.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

People buy all sorts of useless shit. Get yourself a torque damper and a grounding kit then watch how awesome your car is.

Following the forums logic, every air intake is useless. I didnt say i wanted to buy one, more asking why it couldnt be used the same way motor mounts are used. But please, keep the useful comments flowing through, i do enjoy them

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Simon99

Following the forums logic, every air intake is useless. I didnt say i wanted to buy one, more asking why it couldnt be used the same way motor mounts are used. But please, keep the useful comments flowing through, i do enjoy them

It's special that you don't realize people are making fun of you. It must really be a gift. ETA: Explain what YOU think the thing is.

[strat61caster]

Inline engines, especially I4's basically have a bunch of rotational energy creating a torque roughly about the crankshaft when revved, this was very evident in early motorcycles where the engine is longitudinally mounted and when revved the bike would basically try it's darndest to lay down on it's side.

Everybody on board with that concept? Cool.

With transverse engines the torque makes the motor want to fall towards the front or to the back, sure beefy motor mounts could do the trick but why not add a third support?

So some engineers came up with a 'torque damper' shown below:


Here we can see it in the engine bay of a Camry, it's on the left side just below and to the right of the strut tower:


So, why doesn't the FRS have one? Because a flat four engine simply does not generate that kind of force, it's 'balanced' so they say.

Enjoy OP:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ech_index.html
Specifically:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ne/smooth1.htm

Edit: I don't think I've ever seen one on a longitudinally mounted engine, I hypothesize this is because with a transverse engine, the distance between the axis where this torque acts is far removed from the driveshafts, if it were allowed to apply that force unmetered it would create a large stress on the driveshaft/hub interface whereas with a longitudinally mounted RWD the distance between the axis about which the motor rotates and the driveshaft to the differential is much smaller so the stresses are negligible and the torque damper is unneeded. This would also feed into the wheel hop idea the OP mentions.

[Ghost 86]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E_iUvvWxRXA[/ame]
The video above is the difference on a sr20 240 I've wondered why we haven't seen these yet for our car as well. Our engine does move side to side and I think it's a great idea and is cheaper and easier to install and uninstall over a full replacement engine mount kit. So it's not just helpful on fwd

[kbye]

I had an engine torque damper for my UA5 TL-S. For that platform, the V6 was heavy and placed a greater burden on the engine mounts under load. The torque damper helped reduce engine movements and save my engine mounts.

That being said, I think the boxer design allows for lower center of gravity such that replacing stock engine mounts with a stiffer version would be enough to control the torque pitch generated without adding extra weight. That is likely why I have not yet seen torque dampers designed for subarus.

[s2d4]

[wheelhaus]

Here's my theory...

Makes sense to me that they're more common in FWD because the tranny mounts directly to the engine and the axles. So, driveline torque affects the engine differently than a RWD car where the diff is separately mounted to the rear subframe.

So in a RWD platform, if the engine rotates say 5°, it has much smaller effect on the rear wheels due to the final drive reduction in the diff being separated from the engine/tranny assembly, so it may have a 1° effect on the wheels at most.

On the other hand, a FWD platform if the engine were to rotate 5°, the wheels will also rotate 5° because the entire drivetrain (and final drive) is bolted together as a single assembly.

5° is extreme, but just an examlple.

[EAGLE5]

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53149640.jpg

A car has hard points for mounting the engine. I can replace the soft stock bushings and put in harder ones to reduce engine movement.

OR I can also put a little gas cylinder at the top of the engine and transfer all that force to my shock tower. Sounds good for when I'm powering out of a turn. Or I can put the force onto a weak part of my body. Meanwhile, the other side will attach to the engine's head. That way I can put lots of sideways torque on the cylinder head because, you know, that's good for everything.

On a boxer, things are even weirder. Now you're talking about an engine that lifts one side and pushes down on the other, as opposed to one that tilts to the side. You then have to put the stupid thing pointing upwards on one side of the engine. Where it would attach to then? Some fancy brace into the strut tower? Yay, upward motion on your strut tower every time you accelerate. No problem there, right? Oh, but it gets better. That twisting force then concentrates on the other side of the engine. Physics, you know. So now you're compressing more force onto the opposite engine mount. I wonder if the mount will like that?

People will buy anything. My favorite has always been the grounding kits. A hundred+ bucks for some wires. Oil additives that do nothing. Spark plugs with fancy looking tips improperly gapped for the car. Tiny, weak fans for the intake that actually reduce air going into the engine. HID bulbs in stock housings that blind oncoming drivers. It's all pretty funny.

[mav1178]

Two reasons why there's none for this car:

1) you cannot mount it easily, a large bracket will need to be made and it will be complicated.

2) aside from high HP guys, most people with a boosted kit will make ~300RWHP max. Compare that against previous RWD engines making in excess of 350-400RWHP (or 500+ in the case of the I-6's) and you have a lot less justification for this.

Someone will eventually make it, it's just not a cost-effective item to produce and sell. No one's gonna buy it when it will cost a lot of money.

Plus.... where would it be mounted? There's so much clutter next to the strut towers that it'd be pointless. Previous engines (especially I-4) had a high cylinder head it can be bolted to. We have a bunch of plastic.

-alex

[jebuwh]

Okay I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here....

Engine movement does not cause any wheel hop whatsoever on a rwd... So this part would be useless.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

Okay I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here....

Engine movement does not cause any wheel hop whatsoever on a rwd... So this part would be useless.

It doesn't.

This item is meant for drifters, for instant throttle response. It was born out of Japanese drifting.

-alex