No 2021 model

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Except a lot of the press agrees it's a pretty damn good chassis needing a better engine, so...

That is what they said 10 years ago. Now it will be "good engine. Old design. Still no good"

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is what they said 10 years ago. Now it will be "good engine. Old design. Still no good"

Lol they start griping about how the old chassis was better and how the original engine had character or something. That would be funny.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Lol they start griping about how the old chassis was better and how the original engine had character or something. That would be funny.

Just wait for it!
"Still not enough power"
"Still a 10 year old platform"
"Too heavy"
"Not enough gadgets"
"Too many gadgets"

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If any of the latest clickbait rumours are true then calling the car a "Second Generation" at all is a total misnomer. Some changes to the bumpers and a slightly bumped up engine is NOT a new generation. Not even a major facelift really.

VW only changes the engines for the golf/jetta every second generation. The fact that there's a new motor at all is a bit of a surprise (does show they're listening to the masses to an extent anyway)

[vh_supra26]

Is this really anything new? The 07-11 XV40 and 12-17 XV50 Camry were basically the same car with a reskin and different interior. The two even had the same wheelbase (109.3 in), width (71.7 in), Height (57.9 in), engines (2AR and 2GR), and were built on the same Toyota K platform.

Moving into sports cars another example is Porsche. Similar case with the Cayman and Boxster. Besides the new 2.0 engine, updated interior, and face treatment, is there really any major differences between the 981 and 982?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Just wait for it!
"Still not enough power"
"Still a 10 year old platform"
"Too heavy"
"Not enough gadgets"
"Too many gadgets"

300HP = not enough power
Heavily revised chassis = Still the same old platform underneath
just around 3000 lbs = way too heavy....If the miata could stay lightweight...why not this?
Some combination of Toyota Safety Sense and Subaru Eyesight driver assitance = Where is radar cruise and why is it not on a steering wheel button? No torque vectoring diff, just a standard LSD, Lane keep assist doesnt steer you back in the lane, etc.
Some combination of Toyota safety sense and Subaru eyesight driver assists = Why no less is more approach? Why so many gadgets? Its supposed to be a pure affordable back tobasics sports car...all these gadgets take quite a bit away fromt he experience.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

300HP = not enough power
Heavily revised chassis = Still the same old platform underneath
just around 3000 lbs = way too heavy....If the miata could stay lightweight...why not this?
Some combination of Toyota Safety Sense and Subaru Eyesight driver assitance = Where is radar cruise and why is it not on a steering wheel button? No torque vectoring diff, just a standard LSD, Lane keep assist doesnt steer you back in the lane, etc.
Some combination of Toyota safety sense and Subaru eyesight driver assists = Why no less is more approach? Why so many gadgets? Its supposed to be a pure affordable back tobasics sports car...all these gadgets take quite a bit away fromt he experience.

Exactly. So many people whine about how modern cars have become too complicated, and that they want a simple car, basic, elemental, with enough power to be fun but without all the excess frippery and do-dads that contaminate the 'pure' driving experience, etc. etc. They miss the 'old' cars and say they'd love to buy a new old car.

Nissan makes the 370Z, which is basically like buying a new 2003 model car. Simple. Elemental. A little raw. And no one buys it, instead complaining how it's 'dated', and that the infotainment system is 'old'.

Same with the BRZ/86. Buyers have lamented the loss of the small, light, tossable, inexpensive sports car, fun to drive, where handling is more important than sheer power, something in the spirit of the old 'sports' cars of the 1960's (sound familiar)? Enter the BRZ/86, with more than double the power of most of those original 60's 4 cylinder sports cars, and infinitely better handling, comfort, safety, and reliability. And what do a lot of people do? Complain that it 'doesn't have enough power' (though interestingly not many people whine that the Miata, with similar performance to the twins, isn't 'powerful' enough).

Buyers are fickle. Especially with sports/sporty cars it seems. I don't blame manufacturers for largely giving up on the segment. We have only ourselves to blame.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

(though interestingly not many people whine that the Miata, with similar performance to the twins, isn't 'powerful' enough).

I think the Miata is an exception since it has a history to lean on - all generations of the Miata (except the NB Mazdaspeed Miata) where pretty down on power, so nobody complains. Although I wonder what would the US market say if it got the base 1.5 liter engine in the Miata (like the rest of the world gets)?

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Buyers are fickle. Especially with sports/sporty cars it seems. I don't blame manufacturers for largely giving up on the segment. We have only ourselves to blame.

I don't think it's the enthusiasts that are to blame. The problem is that enthusiast just don't bring enough sales of new cars, so their wants are ignored in favor of a more "approachable" and "modern" sports car. One that the average buyer can feel "sporty" as he's racing from red light to red light and will safely get him home on a twisty road. Since the bulk of the buyers want more HP figures, more gadgets and more room inside, "sports" cars get bigger, heavier, number and more expensive. TRD Camrys are flying of the lots. 86s? Not so much.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

...Nissan makes the 370Z, which is basically like buying a new 2003 model car. Simple. Elemental. A little raw. And no one buys it, instead complaining how it's 'dated', and that the infotainment system is 'old'...

i would argue that the z wasn't all that spectacular of a back-to-basics sports car in 2003.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i would argue that the z wasn't all that spectacular of a back-to-basics sports car in 2003.

Why is that? I think it depends largely on what you want. It meets the brief of being a more powerful, NA, basic analog sportscar as well as anything else still on sale. When released, the 370Z was basically embarrassing V8 Mustangs and being compared to the Cayman of the era.

As someone else said, the things it is criticised for (old school, raw, unrefined, low tech, NA, drives like a 20 year old car etc) are some of the very things ‘enthusiasts’ claim to want and miss in modern sportscars, which supposedly prompts them to buy old used cars (it’s definitely not because they can’t afford anything newer).

Another way of looking at it is, if you actually gave the twins the 330HP so many claim to want, and upgraded the body, suspension, wheels, brakes etc to handle that extra power with OEM levels of dependability and safety at a still affordable price, you’d probably end up with something very much like the 370Z, a car that people love to crap on, even as they venerate 300ZXs, 280ZXs, 260Zs etc, all of which are objectively more primitive, less safe, and less refined etc.

Nissan basically still sells the affordable ‘more powerful’ twin (with a new car factory warranty) that everyone claims to want so bad, and virtually no-one buys them new anymore. Frankly, I’m surprised Nissan is even taking the financial risk on a new 400Z, or Toyota/Subaru on a new twin, given how badly sports coupes sell these days.

[nashcarr]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

VW only changes the engines for the golf/jetta every second generation. The fact that there's a new motor at all is a bit of a surprise (does show they're listening to the masses to an extent anyway)

It's a repurposed motor from the Ascent. Still NOT listening to the masses and proof is that Toyota is selling a 240 HP $40+ Supra which kills the notion of a 260-280 hp twin, which is what everyone is clamoring for.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Nissan basically still sells the affordable ‘more powerful’ twin (with a new car factory warranty) that everyone claims to want so bad, and virtually no-one buys them new anymore. Frankly, I’m surprised Nissan is even taking the financial risk on a new 400Z, or Toyota/Subaru on a new twin, given how badly sports coupes sell these days.

I felt the same way. The current 370Z is sort of like a more powerful twin. I loved most things about the 370Z (except the non-existent visibility and very limited carrying capacity). I tried hard to buy one, but what ultimately stopped me was how sleazy and difficult most Nissan dealers were to deal with. It seems to be in their DNA... they just couldn't help playing all sorts of stereotypical dealer scum games (bait-and-switch, won't give a price unless you come in person, etc.). It just turned me off, and made the BRZ look better in comparison (the Subaru dealers have been a pleasure to deal with).

If I had found a Nissan dealer that was more trustworthy to deal with, and was able to get me a new red 370Z, I would have bought one instead.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Why is that? I think it depends largely on what you want. It meets the brief of being a more powerful, NA, basic analog sportscar as well as anything else still on sale. When released, the 370Z was basically embarrassing V8 Mustangs and being compared to the Cayman of the era.

As someone else said, the things it is criticised for (old school, raw, unrefined, low tech, NA, drives like a 20 year old car etc) are some of the very things ‘enthusiasts’ claim to want and miss in modern sportscars, which supposedly prompts them to buy old used cars (it’s definitely not because they can’t afford anything newer).

Another way of looking at it is, if you actually gave the twins the 330HP so many claim to want, and upgraded the body, suspension, wheels, brakes etc to handle that extra power with OEM levels of dependability and safety at a still affordable price, you’d probably end up with something very much like the 370Z, a car that people love to crap on, even as they venerate 300ZXs, 280ZXs, 260Zs etc, all of which are objectively more primitive, less safe, and less refined etc.

Nissan basically still sells the affordable ‘more powerful’ twin (with a new car factory warranty) that everyone claims to want so bad, and virtually no-one buys them new anymore. Frankly, I’m surprised Nissan is even taking the financial risk on a new 400Z, or Toyota/Subaru on a new twin, given how badly sports coupes sell these days.

i test drove one somewhere around 2013. i really wanted to like it--i've liked the 350z since the original release-- where i picked up a dvd copy of "the run"

what i found in that test drive was that the 2004 350z i drove was more refined in almost every way than my then-current non-sportscar 2001 eclipse. it had gps, it had power leather seats. the ride felt more luxury soft than sports-car rigid. it was easy to ignore everything going on outside the car, which is specifically what i've never wanted, but the world at large seems to desire. but the part that really disappointed me was the interior size. for a car so big, there was no more room than a miata.

i need to test drive one again, but the misery of being cramped in the same way i was in a single cab ranger, like the designers built the cab for 5'0" drivers was really what ended my test drive fastest.

[pallen]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i test drove one somewhere around 2013. i really wanted to like it--i've liked the 350z since the original release-- where i picked up a dvd copy of "the run"

...

I got this dvd in the mail shortly after coming back home after having lived in Prague for a year and a half. I was a huge fan of the 300ZX and eventually owned one and was dearly missing Prague. This was all the feels.

I swear the 370Z didn’t sound anything like that when I test drove some a few months ago. I ultimately decided on the 86, but I love both cars.