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Old 01-12-2020, 05:44 PM   #15
Dirty Harry
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Except that nobody actually thinks that way except a few neckbeards looking for an idiotic argument. When people look back at "the 20s," they'll count 2020 among them, because it's a 20. Whether it's technically correct is irrelevant and inconsequential.
I was more shit stirring with that argument. Yeah agree when you think of the ‘80s for example, you think 1980 to 1989 not 1981 to 1990.

Point 2 about the Tesla being number 1 is the bigger problem. I can’t see it being “best” unless you’re into acceleration and gadgetry. A car that heavy wouldn’t be very nimble like an 86/BRZ.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:10 AM   #16
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inb4argument:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_D...d_of_a_century

Technically I think that means the decade ends after 2020, i.e. January 1st 2021 is the beginning of a new decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_0


Umm... #racecar or something.
2010-2019 is 10 years. That's a decade by definition. Counting successive decades from 1AD then yes, 2020 is actually the end of that decade. Everyone is right and you can now piss people off by talking about the end of the decade every year

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/decade
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:16 AM   #17
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My decade begins in 2015. So I've got 5 years yet.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #18
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Yea, i really don't get the metrics they're using to narrow the list down.

Tesla as a brand is very influential, but none of their cars stand out as being any more influential than another
I wouldn't buy one personally, but I think it's pretty easy to make an argument for Tesla.

Starting a new car company is hard.

Starting a new car company that sells something unlike anything that existed at the time all while managing to position oneself in such a way as to draw in tech, luxury and sport buyers is harder still.

Toyota was building the Prius for years before Tesla came along, and despite its success, you only ever saw lukewarm attempts from other automakers to dip into the market. Then Tesla showed up and now you have real efforts at innovation from all sectors to compete.

For better AND worse, Tesla is the metric against which all other automakers are now having to judge their battery-powered attempts.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #19
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...then Tesla showed up and now you have real efforts at innovation from all sectors to compete..
I think changing regulations had as much or more to do with that then Tesla. Tesla helped accelerate it, sure. What Tesla really did was help clarify the playing field. Everyone was working on alternative fuels, they just didn't have a focus. By entering the marketplace, Tesla helped consolidate the effort on electric, good or bad.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:25 AM   #20
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Now I really want to drive one of those Alpines. Stupid US government overreach.

It goes both ways and is what I read on Corvette, Camaro and Mustang forums from Euros complaining about EU overreach.

Within 10 years we'll all be complaining about off-peak charging restrictions implemented to conserve limited grid capacity.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:57 AM   #21
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Toyota was building the Prius for years before Tesla came along, and despite its success, you only ever saw lukewarm attempts from other automakers to dip into the market. Then Tesla showed up and now you have real efforts at innovation from all sectors to compete.

For better AND worse, Tesla is the metric against which all other automakers are now having to judge their battery-powered attempts.

I understand the point you are trying to make,but comparing the Prius to a Tesla is kind of a false equivalency,considering one is a hybrid and the other is totally electric.

Not only that,the reason that other manufacturers weren't interested in electric cars is because of the lack of need for parts. They talked about this in the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car". A totally electric car eliminates the need for parts like alternators,water pumps,exhaust systems,spark plugs,etc.,thus taking away another revenue stream.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:50 PM   #22
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I understand the point you are trying to make,but comparing the Prius to a Tesla is kind of a false equivalency,considering one is a hybrid and the other is totally electric.

Not only that,the reason that other manufacturers weren't interested in electric cars is because of the lack of need for parts. They talked about this in the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car". A totally electric car eliminates the need for parts like alternators,water pumps,exhaust systems,spark plugs,etc.,thus taking away another revenue stream.
the other important aspect is reliability. the consumer reliability expectations of an established automaker is drastically different than that of tesla.

we can see it most notably right now with the porche taycan and it's battery programming.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:09 PM   #23
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im just gonna say, the 2008 subaru outback 2.5xt is the best car ever made and the 2008 outback should be on the list of best cars of the decade, if not the turbo version then the n/a.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:33 PM   #24
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:02 PM   #25
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im just gonna say, the 2008 subaru outback 2.5xt is the best car ever made and the 2008 outback should be on the list of best cars of the decade, if not the turbo version then the n/a.
They go well with a lift kit and some all terrain tyres too.

A "smallish" camper trailer on the back and your good to go traveling Australia.

Boosted version of course, we all need that added torque.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:50 PM   #26
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Toyota was building the Prius for years before Tesla came along, and despite its success, you only ever saw lukewarm attempts from other automakers to dip into the market. Then Tesla showed up and now you have real efforts at innovation from all sectors to compete.

For better AND worse, Tesla is the metric against which all other automakers are now having to judge their battery-powered attempts.
Yes, Toyota was building the Prius for years before Tesla came along.
No, other several other automakers had heavily invested ventures into hybrid/battery powered vehicles before Tesla.
The Honda Insight actually predates the Prius in the U.S. Although you could say that was lukewarm, I suppose. Honda released the Civic hybrid in 2003, which was reasonably popular. Ford even released the hybrid Escape in 2005. At least 10 other hybrid models existed before Tesla was even heard of, with many more going into production.
Tesla delivered their first car in late 2008.
At that point in time, Tesla was still a joke. A company deep in debt, barely surviving off of steep government subsidies.
Nobody was trying to 'emulate' Tesla. And they didn't catch on until a few years ago.

The Prius caught on because it was quite revolutionary, and Toyota marketed it well. Also, talking about "The Prius" is a bit easier than saying "The Honda Civic Hybrid". Even so, nobody marketed their electric/hybrid stuff the way Tesla does as it is their sole method of surviving.
Until very recently, electric vehicles are a cute afterthought for most automakers. Just a way to "seem green" and a meager offering to help achieve CAFE quotas.

Yes, Tesla absolutely changed the game. But they did so while spending other people's money recklessly - a luxury that most automakers don't have.

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I think changing regulations had as much or more to do with that then Tesla. Tesla helped accelerate it, sure. What Tesla really did was help clarify the playing field. Everyone was working on alternative fuels, they just didn't have a focus. By entering the marketplace, Tesla helped consolidate the effort on electric, good or bad.
This is mostly correct.
It's something that was going to happen anyway, certainly when you consider what the EPA regulations are now, but Tesla made BEVs 'sexy' and probably fast-forwarded them 10 years.

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I understand the point you are trying to make,but comparing the Prius to a Tesla is kind of a false equivalency,considering one is a hybrid and the other is totally electric.

Not only that,the reason that other manufacturers weren't interested in electric cars is because of the lack of need for parts. They talked about this in the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car". A totally electric car eliminates the need for parts like alternators,water pumps,exhaust systems,spark plugs,etc.,thus taking away another revenue stream.
You absolutely can compare the Prius to the Tesla. Their only real difference is performance, while their similarities are immense.
The goal behind them is pretty much the same: to bring more energy-efficient vehicles to the forefront. And they both do it through electric propulsion.
The Prius is for nerds, and the Tesla is for rich nerds. That's the only real difference.

The 2nd point you make - about electric cars being far simpler, requiring less parts - is true, but I think you're misrepresenting it a bit. Dealerships, for sure, try to downplay electric vehicles due to lack of repair & maint revenue to be collected later, but I don't think the automakers share this behavior.

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the other important aspect is reliability. the consumer reliability expectations of an established automaker is drastically different than that of tesla.
I don't think so.
I think Tesla had much more scrutiny than anyone else. Mostly because of the grandiose ideas that Tesla presented. "It's gonna be great. The bestest ever. The batteries are gonna contain the power of the sun. And we're gonna warranty those suckers for 1 billion years. And it's never gonna break down"
So any time any sort of issue came up - a single car caught on fire, a pedestrian collision after like 500k miles of autonomous driving logged, etc - Tesla got reemed for it.
Additionally, their company image was so fragile that if their reliability rating dipped even slightly, they might seem like a fraud and lose everything. On top of that, all their eggs were in the same basket. If the Prius suddenly went bad, that's fine, that's only like 3% of Toyota's sales. They would just push the Corolla a bit harder until they got the Prius fixed again.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:13 PM   #27
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I don't think so.
I think Tesla had much more scrutiny than anyone else. Mostly because of the grandiose ideas that Tesla presented. "It's gonna be great. The bestest ever. The batteries are gonna contain the power of the sun. And we're gonna warranty those suckers for 1 billion years. And it's never gonna break down"
So any time any sort of issue came up - a single car caught on fire, a pedestrian collision after like 500k miles of autonomous driving logged, etc - Tesla got reemed for it.
Additionally, their company image was so fragile that if their reliability rating dipped even slightly, they might seem like a fraud and lose everything. On top of that, all their eggs were in the same basket. If the Prius suddenly went bad, that's fine, that's only like 3% of Toyota's sales. They would just push the Corolla a bit harder until they got the Prius fixed again.
tesla has had a lot of growing pains with product fitment and reliability that the owners are much more ok with than other products. as evidenced with the door handle issues, the rusting glass, or the inconsistent panel gaps, or replacement part extreme wait times.

they still achieve high reliability and satisfaction marks despite some very obvious flaws despite other manufacturers facing great scrutiny over similar issues.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:28 AM   #28
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You know what's missing from that list?



I can't have this one either. Stupid government overreach.
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