(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Definitely for an article but -10 if true. Jus seems like a wasted effort, just changing to change, knowing it won't make anyone particularly happy. Maybe I'll be wrong, or maybe they realize I'm probably not a MK2 buyer anyway.

Of course, the truth is they don't really care that much what current owners think. At least it doesn't seem like they are listening.

Nope not what it meant. It is article #10 based on the latest bestcar fiction that has been posted here. This one doesn't even have the honesty to say that their source is another clickbait.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by HuntingtonFRS

Can you even trust a website with that many ads? Good lord


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s why I stated “funny” lol

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nope not what it meant. It is article #10 based on the latest bestcar fiction that has been posted here. This one doesn't even have the honesty to say that their source is another clickbait.

Agh OK. I'm so tired of the whole thing I'm not paying close attention any longer. To misquote Yoda "MK2 or Refresh, just let it die"

[Lantanafrs2]

Probably more activity on this thread than in the development of the next 86

[nikitopo]

[Opie]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Subaru will do what Toyota wants in the end, wether it is for financial reasons or not, Subaru is really only a little fish in the pond, backed, and kept afloat, by Toyota.

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by HuntingtonFRS

Can you even trust a website with that many ads? Good lord


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll give them credit because while they complained about my ad blocker they didn't actually make me turn it off to read the clickbait article..

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Going outside of the total economy and focusing purely on automotive things look different. The industry was already starting to head into decline in 2019. The manufactures recognized this and were already making preparations. Then Covid came along and gave a knockout punch. There will be no quick recovery for automotive.


Pre Covid news. There is plenty more of the same.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/busin...ion/index.html

Agreed, it is difficult to bounce back when they've been spending all their money on negative profit EVs that nobody wants to buy.

Originally Posted by evoto86

Don't know if it's worth buying just for a 2.4 motor, by fall of 2021 my 2016 facelift 86 will be worth probably 17-18 grand. Is it worth buying a 86 with a 2.4 for 36grand sticker price if the price does not change to the current 86 brand new. For the difference thats a built engine and money to spare. I really don't see myself getting one unless this 2.4 is a night and day difference over the current FA20.

What's MSRP for an 86 in New South Wales?! It's about $28000 in the US and I would assume the price to stay the same (or creep up slightly depending on performance changes).

[R_E_L]

Oh boy the rage that would result if it is just another facelift, with a slight power bump and an NA engine would be palpable.

As an owner I didn't think the car needed much before I purchased, power was all I felt was missing. I figured with a header and E85 I could mostly address that. Since buying and making those changes, I am pretty satisfied with the results given what my other options were. But for me to get into a next gen car, the goal posts move along with the rest of the competition. Why pay new car money for something I already got, or even worse, may end up being less than what I got?

And for people on the fence for the first gen cars, they have all been holding out for the dream of a factory boosted twin. It's all people have cried for since the car released.

Responding to both parties buy putting out a heavier, warmed over car with a new bumper seems like the laziest solution possible. If that is the plan, they're honestly better off saving face and not doing anything at all. Put the poor car to rest.

[Ernest72]

To be honest, for DD the power with header and tune is fine. My WRX has so much more torque, but I rarely use it under normal driving. Only spirited driving and honestly you can easily kill yourself on public roads with either car. I often see high powered cars on some of my spirited runs and they can only pull ahead on straights and not even that much because it’s public roads. It’s literally crazy that my 28k BRZ can chase a 250k GT3 on a mountain road. I mean the guy can’t use the power he has. Now for tracking, it’s a different story. I hope the next gen has more power so I can buy the old gen cheap as a weekend track toy.

[Opie]

That article was pure comedy...but hey, the writer is an "Automotive Expert" LOL

This thread is giving me the serious chuckles today, and I really need it after the night I had last night...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by R_E_L

Oh boy the rage that would result if it is just another facelift, with a slight power bump and an NA engine would be palpable.

As an owner I didn't think the car needed much before I purchased, power was all I felt was missing. I figured with a header and E85 I could mostly address that. Since buying and making those changes, I am pretty satisfied with the results given what my other options were. But for me to get into a next gen car, the goal posts move along with the rest of the competition. Why pay new car money for something I already got, or even worse, may end up being less than what I got?

And for people on the fence for the first gen cars, they have all been holding out for the dream of a factory boosted twin. It's all people have cried for since the car released.

Responding to both parties buy putting out a heavier, warmed over car with a new bumper seems like the laziest solution possible. If that is the plan, they're honestly better off saving face and not doing anything at all. Put the poor car to rest.

Most of the people that won't buy because it "doesn't have enough power" still wouldn't buy if it did. It would all of a sudden cost to much, be to heavy, be poorly assembled, have the wrong type of brake lines or some other reason it is no good and they won't buy it. Half of them want a 30 year old car that was no better than what is made now unless it was heavily modded.
Hell, even if it came out with a 300HP turboed power plant they would complain that something else at twice the price has 301 and that is what is needed or it is junk.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hell, even if it came out with a 300HP turboed power plant they would complain that something else at twice the price has 301 and that is what is needed or it is junk.

I don’t necessarily agree. I think mid-high 200s (260-290HP) is now the benchmark for compact sized sporty cars like hot hatches, and I think that level of power in a dedicated RWD coupe would make the twins instantly market competitive again.

In 2012, when the twins came out, 200-210HP was par for the course in hot hatch benchmarks like the Golf GTI. The twins lacked torque without a turbo, but with revs up high in the powerband they could mix it with the benchmark hot hatches of the day. Fast forward to 2020 and most hot hatches are over 250HP, up to about 300HP. That is the new market ‘sweet spot’ for affordable, everyday performance.

There is no reason a turbo twin could not put out 280-ish HP and instantly be the darling of the automotive world again, without costing an arm and a leg. Yes, bigger brakes, beefier components etc will add a little weight, but not much. If other designers can make turbo five door hot hatches under 1350kgs, Toyota and Subaru can surely make a two door coupe under that as well.

Sure, there will be some who say a 280HP twin should have been 300HP, or 350HP etc. But for keen and sensible drivers, it is well understood that 300HP is about the limit of what is ever practical on the street - above this, you’ll only ever use any extra power on a track. I think high 200s HP would bring the twins back and bring in both new buyers as well as tempt existing owners to trade up. YMMV.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

I don’t necessarily agree. I think mid-high 200s (260-290HP) is now the benchmark for compact sized sporty cars like hot hatches, and I think that level of power in a dedicated RWD coupe would make the twins instantly market competitive again.

In 2012, when the twins came out, 200-210HP was par for the course in hot hatch benchmarks like the Golf GTI. The twins lacked torque without a turbo, but with revs up high in the powerband they could mix it with the benchmark hot hatches of the day. Fast forward to 2020 and most hot hatches are over 250HP, up to about 300HP. That is the new market ‘sweet spot’ for affordable, everyday performance.

There is no reason a turbo twin could not put out 280-ish HP and instantly be the darling of the automotive world again, without costing an arm and a leg. Yes, bigger brakes, beefier components etc will add a little weight, but not much. If other designers can make turbo five door hot hatches under 1350kgs, Toyota and Subaru can surely make a two door coupe under that as well.

Sure, there will be some who say a 280HP twin should have been 300HP, or 350HP etc. But for keen and sensible drivers, it is well understood that 300HP is about the limit of what is ever practical on the street - above this, you’ll only ever use any extra power on a track. I think high 200s HP would bring the twins back and bring in both new buyers as well as tempt existing owners to trade up. YMMV.

Ahhh but you are talking about the reasonable public that live in the real world. I was referencing the many that complained when the power was par for the course.
Doubt you would see them make or sell any more at a higher HP than they do now (well did I guess). Yes it would open up one market but it would close another so in the end would be about the same.