Toyota OEM 4.5 FD Part number

[industrial]

Good lord. Driving a manual in traffic is an issue with people? In this car? I will agree that it's less than ideal but isn't a manual transmission a fundamental aspect of driving a sports car?

Diss, do you have any plans to build the motor? I plan to when parts become available with hopes to extend the power band to 8500rpm. IMO, this car would be perfect with a 4.5fd and power band from 5000-8500.

[stevo_12v]

Originally Posted by diss7

Sigh.
I get so sick of reading about these final drives.
They DONT give the car more power. All they do is shorten the gearing. Remember the mountain bike you had as a kid. Lets say stock car 6 speed is like only using gears 3,5,7,9,11,13. Changing the final drive in the car is like those 6 gears now being 2,4,6,8,10,12.

Hahaha this reminds me of the scene in The Fast and The Furious when P/Walker says his car topped out at 140mph. Changing your drive ratio will just allow you to just bypass the torque dip a lot quicker(due to being shorter).

I think.. I'll go with that 4.56 Toyota Part though. Great thread.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by gt1680

I am in Jakarta, Indonesia. Sometimes it took me 3 hours just to travel 30 km (18.6miles).

LOL! You obviously don't know what real traffic is like. Try commuting between Baltimore and downtown Washington DC during weekday rush hour traffic 5 days a week for a year and see if you still feel the same.




I agree with most of what you've said on the FD ratio subject but please understand that there are places on this planet where driving a MT is pure torture. Just because the 86 is a car best enjoyed with a MT doesn't necessarily mean that those of us who require an AT because of our work commute shouldn't be able to enjoy an 86 at all.

Sounds like both of you are spending a lot of time stopped on your commutes. I've been there. I understand the frustration.

Fast_Freddy... Lets not play the "my traffic is worse than yours" game when there is actually quantifiable data out there suggesting that people in both Auckland and Christchurch spend more extra time stuck in traffic than anyone in the US. Tom Tom has been tracking this stuff.

GT1680, that sounds like hell. Is that a common occurrence? On a few occasions in the Bay Area and LA I've had the displeasure of spending 2 hours to go 20 miles or so. I don't envy you.

I've also spent hours commuting in traffic between San Diego and LA in a DSM with a 2600lb pressure plate. My left calf was a full inch larger in diameter than the right. Some things are worth suffering for

[diss7]

Originally Posted by industrial

Diss, do you have any plans to build the motor? I plan to when parts become available with hopes to extend the power band to 8500rpm. IMO, this car would be perfect with a 4.5fd and power band from 5000-8500.

No plans to build the motor.

I change my mind about something's a lot, but not that. If I were to turbo I would go for around 300whp max, but focusing on response. But I think NA will be better for a track car. I think I can get this car to do a 13sec quarter mile NA without making too many changes.

[gt1680]

@Sellout : almost monday to friday during rush hour, 20 miles takes 2.5 to 3 hours, i used to have manual trans car in every single car i've owned from 1990 to 2005, from 2006 till now, all auto, only my bikes are manual ( coz i only ride them on weekends and public holidays )

[gt1680]

Back to the topic, i've been following your thread @diss7, and learned a lot from it, let's see how you'll like the shorter ratio in your car.

[JiB]

Got my car a couple days back with the 4.55 FD installed. Hit the track (Wakefield) where previously my PB was 1.09.8 and i knew the FD wasnt going to be great for that track, where i would normally be in 3rd i would have to be in 4th. did a 1.11.2 with the new FD, track temps didnt help being a 40+ degree celcius day. I left the track feeling a little disappointed in the FD, but the drive home changed my mind. so much more responsive.

[nikitopo]

A shorter final drive ratio (with same gear ratios) might seem more responsive, but does not give better results on an ordinary race track. In fact you are going much slower! It might help only on autox tracks where you are working with low gears.

[Manji]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A shorter final drive ratio (with same gear ratios) might seem more responsive, but does not give better results on an ordinary race track. In fact you are going much slower! It might help only on autox tracks where you are working with low gears.

False

[phrosty]

Originally Posted by Manji

False

I'd guess this would depend very much on the track. Higher wheel torque, or less shifts...

[Manji]

Originally Posted by phrosty

I'd guess this would depend very much on the track. Higher wheel torque, or less shifts...

Yes, it is track dependent. But, higher final drive doesn't mean more shifts. At my track it meant less, as I didn't need to chop into 2nd around the hairpin.

[nikitopo]

We are not discussing about higher final drive ratio, but about shorter! For example 4.1 -> 4.5

It is not only about more shifts. It is that you have to work in higher gears. Post #91 mentions it. He was normally using 3rd gear on a specific track and after the change he had to use 4th gear. Overall timing was worst.

When you go from a 4.1 to a 4.5 drive ratio you have a 10% increase, but when you're using the 4th gear instead of the 3rd you have a 20% decrease. This is getting even worst when you have to shift into 5th or even 6th gear! That's why you lose.

Most advantages of a shorter final drive ratio can be seen on the 1st and 2nd gears, but these gears are not of much use in racing. I can imagine only a very tight race track which could get an advantage from this.


Even the decision to have a 4.1 ratio as standard was mainly for the "feeling" factor. A sports car that can achieve it's top speed only in overdrive (6th gear) is not a very good decision for racing! That is why it is very difficult to go with more than 200km/h (124 mph) in stock form ..

[Manji]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

We are not discussing about higher final drive ratio, but about shorter! For example 4.1 -> 4.5

It is not only about more shifts. It is that you have to work in higher gears. Post #91 mentions it. He was normally using 3rd gear on a specific track and after the change he had to use 4th gear. Overall timing was worst.

When you go from a 4.1 to a 4.5 drive ratio you have a 10% increase, but using the 4th gear instead of the 3rd you have a 20% decrease. This is getting even worst when you have to shift into 5th or even 6th gear! That's why you lose.

Most advantages of a shorter final drive ratio can be seen on the 1st and 2nd gears, but these gears are not of much use in racing. I can imagine only a very tight race track which could get an advantage from this.


Even the decision to have a 4.1 ratio as standard was mainly for the "feeling" factor. A sports car that can achieve it's top speed only in overdrive (6th gear) is not a very good decision for racing! That is why it is very difficult to go with more than 200km/h (124 mph) in stock form ..

Higher final drive is correct. 4.5 is higher than 4.1. 4.5 is also taller. Higher/lower/shorter/taller, its all terminology.

I am telling you that it is track dependent. My comments about 4.5 being better at my track are not theory, they are fact. You can argue it all you like, but I don't need you to tell me what I already know.

Here is a video. I will talk you through it.
[ame]http://youtu.be/84dz5p3X-vw[/ame]
At 0.33 I had to chop down into 2nd with the 4.1. With the 4.5 it is quicker for me to stay in 3rd now. 2 gear changes saved.

From 0.50 - 1.04 I can stay in 3rd as I did with the 4.1FD, but with the 4.5FD I'm faster through here as I'm higher in the rev range

From 1.05 - 1.12 with the 4.1FD this was an awkward section. If I left in 3rd I had to ride the limiter. If I went for 4th,it was the wrong gear for the corner, so had to go back to 3rd after only having been in 4th for a moment. With the 4.5FD I grab 4th earlier, and can take the corner in 4th. So downshift saved.

1.12 - 1.19 with 4.5 I can stay in 4th. With 4.1 I stay in 3rd.

Little straight after 1.19 with 4.5 I am already in 4th. 4.1FD I need to get into 4th.

Main straight. 4.1FD and 4.5FD I go 3rd 4th 5th. I don't run out of 5th gear with the 4.5FD.

1st corner off the straight, I used 3rd with both FD's, but with the 4.5FD it pulled better.

I'll say it again, its track dependent! For me, its better on my track to have a 4.5. But if I went to 4.8 it would all change. I'd need 6th on the straight, and the section after the hairpin I would run out of 3rd.

You set your gearing for the track you are on. With my race car, I have different diff nuggets I use for different tracks. And I don't need to check a forum to argue about which will be quicker.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Manji

Main straight. 4.1FD and 4.5FD I go 3rd 4th 5th. I don't run out of 5th gear with the 4.5FD.

I'll try to explain it to you on the main straight which is easier. You say that you were using 3rd 4th 5th gear in both FDs. You were trying in the video to achieve top speed and you got only 181km/h in 5th gear. With 4.1FD you would be close to this speed in 4th gear which pulls better and then get more speed in 5th gear. This means that you would be quicker with the 4.1FD. So, I don't see this car to be faster.


As I said, your most gains are in 1st and 2nd gear. There are also some gains in a short range of the other gears. That is why most people saying that the car pulls better and it is more responsive.


I agree that the transmission choice is track related, but not by changing only the final drive ratio. Gear ratios are also important.


Anyway, in your case you have changed now the car engine, so you don't have to worry too much with such issues. Happy New Year!