follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] For all off-topic discussion topics.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-15-2021, 12:16 PM   #995
Ultramaroon
comma chameleon
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 27,537
Thanks: 43,620
Thanked 29,633 Times in 15,728 Posts
Mentioned: 1016 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Goddammit
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (09-15-2021), spike021 (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 12:23 PM   #996
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 17,180
Thanks: 32,835
Thanked 20,346 Times in 9,460 Posts
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Stats for the past week here (small hospital system, about 350 beds in 4 hospitals):

119 Covid Patients hospitalized. 2 are vaccinated.
18 of these are on ventilators. 0 are vaccinated.
20 Covid related deaths. 1 was vaccinated.
Since 2/1/2021 there have been 135 Covid deaths, 9 were vaccinated.

At our two larger hospitals (representing 80% of our beds) we are at over 150% of occupancy.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Capt Spaulding (09-15-2021), humfrz (09-16-2021), Irace86.2.0 (09-15-2021), spike021 (09-15-2021), Spuds (09-15-2021), Ultramaroon (09-15-2021), weederr33 (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 12:34 PM   #997
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 6,907
Thanks: 18,985
Thanked 8,545 Times in 4,374 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike021 View Post
Not sure what kind of evidence there would be. They said they knew it was covid. Does that mean they had a positive test? is there still a record of that somewhere? if not it's just hearsay probably..
That is the problem there. Proving that she had covid and knew about it is the problem.
Spuds is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Spuds For This Useful Post:
Capt Spaulding (09-16-2021), Dadhawk (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 12:35 PM   #998
wbradley
Sarcastic SOB
 
wbradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '18 STI Sport
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,224
Thanks: 998
Thanked 2,491 Times in 1,433 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
Goddammit
I have learned that nothing good in life comes from anger and that...word.

There is just no answer for people like that.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.
wbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wbradley For This Useful Post:
Ultramaroon (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 12:41 PM   #999
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 6,907
Thanks: 18,985
Thanked 8,545 Times in 4,374 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
I donít think there is grounds for manslaughter. That is hard to prove definitively, but circumstantially, it doesnít look good for that lady. She definitely could be reported for violating a quarantine mandate.
Really, why not? Homicide is a crime. Unborn victims act says unborn children are valid victims of such crime. Manslaughter is a homicide. You don't need intent to kill, you just need the show callous disregard for life. Of course there is likely to be a lack of evidence to prove it if the woman kept the information to herself.

All the conditions are allegedly met assuming the story is true by my understanding.
Spuds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 12:46 PM   #1000
Ultramaroon
comma chameleon
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 27,537
Thanks: 43,620
Thanked 29,633 Times in 15,728 Posts
Mentioned: 1016 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
I have learned that nothing good in life comes from anger and that...word.

There is just no answer for people like that.
Sincere and humble thanks. I feel the course correction wash over me. So hard sometimes.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 01:21 PM   #1001
Capt Spaulding
Persona Non Grata
 
Capt Spaulding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB)
Location: On the Border
Posts: 1,272
Thanks: 1,128
Thanked 1,596 Times in 741 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Really, why not? Homicide is a crime. Unborn victims act says unborn children are valid victims of such crime. Manslaughter is a homicide. You don't need intent to kill, you just need the show callous disregard for life. Of course there is likely to be a lack of evidence to prove it if the woman kept the information to herself.

All the conditions are allegedly met assuming the story is true by my understanding.
First - I am not a lawyer. I did teach them for 30 years and wrote pretty extensively on various related issues, but all things considered, the following is probably worth exactly what it cost you.

There are a couple of possible avenues to deal with situations like this. On the criminal side, homicide, its definitions, and penalties are state level decisions. In a situation like the above, the victim should contact their local prosecutor's office and demand they do something. Maybe their legal system can address it, maybe it can't. Prosecutors also have substantial discretion in filing charges. If the DA declines to file charges, there is not a whole lot a victim can do. They can raise hell and hope public pressure can be brought to bear on he DA. That may work - it may not.

The other route is the civil side. For a supervisor to show up at work knowing they are infected would probably be defined as "grossly negligent." The statement she made about "everyone needs to get it," implies that she see herself as an active agent pursuing that goal. That makes the action willful, and all the more egregious. The woman who experienced the disease and loss appears to have suffered substantial damages. So, it sounds like she has a cause of action to file a civil suit.

There are a few problems with that approach. First is the law in her state. Second, she will need to find a lawyer who will take the case. Unless the victim is well off enough to pay the attorney's fees the lawyer will need to be willing to take the case either pro bono or on a contingent fee basis. Unless there is the potential for a sizeable judgement against the defendant, the contingent fee approach will be a hard sell. I can in no way guess what the probability of any of that is. And finally the plaintiff must prove their case and convince the jury (or judge) to return enough damages to hurt the defendant. Another problem with the civil route is all it can offer the injured party is money damages. For many, the idea of taking money as compensation for a terrible personal loss is unthinkable. But, it is all the system can do.

Finally, there is the resort to interpersonal violence. I would never condone that avenue, but I can understand its attraction.
__________________
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast
Capt Spaulding is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Capt Spaulding For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (09-15-2021), soundman98 (09-15-2021), weederr33 (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 01:23 PM   #1002
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 5,734
Thanks: 4,179
Thanked 4,455 Times in 2,487 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Really, why not? Homicide is a crime. Unborn victims act says unborn children are valid victims of such crime. Manslaughter is a homicide. You don't need intent to kill, you just need the show callous disregard for life. Of course there is likely to be a lack of evidence to prove it if the woman kept the information to herself.

All the conditions are allegedly met assuming the story is true by my understanding.
The opinion of the doctor or interpreting pathologist would probably not hold up in court. Clots could be from any number of things that aren’t related to COVID, so I don’t know if they could prove COVID was the cause. If she was sick and on bed rest for a week, and if she was laying wrong then she could have caused a still birth herself. At least, that is what the defense would say. It would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that COVID caused the still birth, and with 100% certainty that she got COVID from her boss.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liv...-pregnant.html

I’m aware of STD cases that won, but not COVID. Again, hard to prove. This happened at work too, and there seems to be a lot of states that have set up protections that may protect the business and the employees from litigation. I think a competent lawyer would be able to easily create doubt, even in this seemingly obvious example.

https://kgdfloridalaw.com/can-you-su...u-coronavirus/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pew...rrived%3famp=1
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Spuds (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 02:00 PM   #1003
Ultramaroon
comma chameleon
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 27,537
Thanks: 43,620
Thanked 29,633 Times in 15,728 Posts
Mentioned: 1016 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
I will never serve on a jury because there's enough public information about me to show that I clearly understand the difference between reasonable and any. That's the sad truth about the U.S. justice system.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
humfrz (09-16-2021), Spuds (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 02:05 PM   #1004
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 17,180
Thanks: 32,835
Thanked 20,346 Times in 9,460 Posts
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
I think a competent lawyer would be able to easily create doubt, even in this seemingly obvious example.
That's where a civil case might be more successful. Reasonable doubt doesn't come in technically, it's judged by the preponderance of the evidence.

In that case, the jury can overlook a piece of evidence that qualified as reasonable doubt, and consider that there were 15 other pieces of evidence pointing at the defendant.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".

Last edited by Dadhawk; 09-15-2021 at 02:20 PM.
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (09-15-2021), Spuds (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 04:56 PM   #1005
Capt Spaulding
Persona Non Grata
 
Capt Spaulding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB)
Location: On the Border
Posts: 1,272
Thanks: 1,128
Thanked 1,596 Times in 741 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
That's where a civil case might be more successful. Reasonable doubt doesn't come in technically, it's judged by the preponderance of the evidence.

In that case, the jury can overlook a piece of evidence that qualified as reasonable doubt, and consider that there were 15 other pieces of evidence pointing at the defendant.
It would be interesting to see how both a criminal and a civil case here would play out. One thing people are often unaware of is the idea of "jury nullification." For those who haven't heard of it, it's a fancy way of saying that once they retire to the deliberation room a jury can do anything - it - wants. It doesn't matter what the law says, the jury is a power unto itself. Now verdicts can be appealed and, in some cases dismissed by the judge, or a judge may render a "verdict not withstanding." But Juries can legally do all manner of unusual things.

As we saw in the famous "McDonalds Coffee Case" (Liebeck v. McDonalds) and Pennzoil v. Texaco, a pissed off jury can make life quite uncomfortable for an arrogant defendant and make a good plaintiff's lawyer V E R Y wealthy.
__________________
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast
Capt Spaulding is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Capt Spaulding For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (09-16-2021), soundman98 (09-15-2021), Spuds (09-15-2021), Ultramaroon (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 05:08 PM   #1006
Ultramaroon
comma chameleon
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 27,537
Thanks: 43,620
Thanked 29,633 Times in 15,728 Posts
Mentioned: 1016 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
As we saw in the famous "McDonalds Coffee Case" (Liebeck v. McDonalds) and Pennzoil v. Texaco, a pissed off jury can make life quite uncomfortable for an arrogant defendant and make a good plaintiff's lawyer V E R Y wealthy.
Judges can "instruct" juries all they want but once the door closes in that deliberation room, it's on.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
Capt Spaulding (09-16-2021), humfrz (09-16-2021), Irace86.2.0 (09-15-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 07:43 PM   #1007
weederr33
Airborne at your service
 
weederr33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: '17 BRZ Series.Yellow
Location: El Paso, Texas
Posts: 5,205
Thanks: 3,799
Thanked 4,218 Times in 2,281 Posts
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
JFC I avoid this thread for a few days due to being distracted with one more relevant to me, and then I see a post about a stillborn child. O_o

I will openly admit when I see posts like that, especially with the emojis I get suspicious as I would just make it more dry and to the point. But that's me. Regardless, if that is a real situation, it's a pretty fucked up one. Beyond the immediate desire to find a new employer asap, I'm not sure what else to do.
__________________
Series.Yellowbird - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122135

MS, CSCS, TSAC-F, CPT
weederr33 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to weederr33 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (09-16-2021), Spuds (09-16-2021)
Old 09-15-2021, 10:05 PM   #1008
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 5,734
Thanks: 4,179
Thanked 4,455 Times in 2,487 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
That's where a civil case might be more successful. Reasonable doubt doesn't come in technically, it's judged by the preponderance of the evidence.

In that case, the jury can overlook a piece of evidence that qualified as reasonable doubt, and consider that there were 15 other pieces of evidence pointing at the defendant.
Well, again, there isnít just one thing here. If I was a lawyer I would argue that the defense couldnít prove without RNA testing that the victims got COVID from the defendant, that clots may not have come from COVID or caused a stillbirth, but were a result of the stillbirth, that the defendant could have caused the stillbirth with her bedrest and sleeping position, and that the evidence against my client was circumstantial at best.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (09-16-2021)
Reply

Tags
blindly follow the leader, circle jerk olympics, come and make me, eagle5 fudge packer, i did my own research, o'doyle rules!, peer reviewed thread, poz my neg hole, shut the fuck up, socialist losers, waahwaahbradley

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Covid 19 origin(s) Lantanafrs2 Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 280 08-29-2021 12:38 AM
Covid Lockdown Activities Boomerang Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 1471 09-29-2020 03:38 PM
Dating during Covid Impureclient Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 116 04-14-2020 10:58 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.