COVID Developments and News

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm 5'7" tall (on a good day). If I lived on 4,000 calories a day I would weigh 600lbs. in under a year. I have to eat less than 1,500 calories a day to stay under 200, something I often fail at doing given I have a sedentary job.

Like it or not, there is a difference between your experiment of choosing to be overweight, and living with a body that wants to be overweight.

I agree anyone can be fit, but it is not a complete mental exercise. For some it's easy, for others its a day to day challenge. Some of it is environmental, some of it is biological.

I am 5'9" for reference.

There are a million things you can do to increase your metabolic rate.

Proper body composition, proper well balanced macro/micro nutrients, activity level, exercise, supplementation, medication, TRT/HRT (highly recommended looking into), just to name a few ways.

I never said it was easy, but it is almost entirely mental. Any physical/genetic/biological issue can almost always been remedied or substantially improved to be a low factor, and most people who blame one of those 3 do not actual suffer from it or only a very insignificant level.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I am 5'9" for reference.

There are a million things you can do to increase your metabolic rate.

Proper body composition, proper well balanced macro/micro nutrients, activity level, exercise, supplementation, medication, TRT/HRT (highly recommended looking into), just to name a few ways.

I never said it was easy, but it is almost entirely mental. Any physical/genetic/biological issue can almost always been remedied or substantially improved to be a low factor, and most people who blame one of those 3 do not actual suffer from it or only a very insignificant level.

if it's so easy, why not start working with people with these issues and drive this change yourself? You should be easily able to get people healthy, quickly, and make plenty of money from it.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by weederr33

The bold is literally speculation. And teetering on conspiracy with them being some sort of forever war. Even then, what difference does it make if it's an extra shot you have to get yearly like the Flu shot?

Your solution would prevent more death, cost, and medical burden in the sense of CVD and other metabolic disorders. It would not fix a virus. If that was the case we wouldn't have as many illnesses in other, more healthy, countries.

I would argue cost would not be improved. It's still expensive for some people to get a gym membership or go to something like Camp Gladiator. Even virtual things. You'd have to purchase equipment and then find space to do so. It's cheaper than going to the hospital, but considering the vaccine is literally free, that point of saving money is moot.

I'm well aware being healthy directly impacts likelihood of getting ill. But again, it is not the right solution to the problem. It's beneficial and I fully agree with you that people should be working out and exercising regularly to help stay healthy.

I posted the cost burden on the medical system associated with smoking and obesity, 300 billion smokers 190 billion obesity. That is not including those 2 being comorbidities for Covid since that data is more recent.

480,000 smoking deaths.
300,000 obesity deaths.

We would not only help alleviate a large burden from a covid standpoint even 30% perhaps?

We would dramatically alleviate a larger burden from non covid issues.

The greatest possible benefit.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by spike021

if it's so easy, why not start working with people with these issues and drive this change yourself? You should be easily able to get people healthy, quickly, and make plenty of money from it.

I have numerous times for free, however changing someone's mentality is very difficult. As I am sure you are aware ,other wise threads like this would probably not exist or at least wouldn't hit 60+ pages.

You know the saying lead them to water cant make them drink.

Most people don't have the will power, their desire to succeed in weight loss is less than there desire to continue in their current life style.

So how do we change this mentality, or how do we create the desire to lose weight or live a healthy life style to outweigh the desire to continue in an unhealthy lifestyle? Mandates perhaps?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Many of them are. As others have pointed out, those that are obese or smoke already pay more for employer provided healthcare since they aren't eligible for some specific discounts. Where I work that would a be penalty of almost $2000 per year if you both smoke and over overweight.

Many of them to an extent, but not the more extreme ones being proposed, or recent mandates being implemented.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Feel like I've beaten a dead horse.
Whatever mandates you want for vaccine, implement for obesity and smoking.

Considering the data of infection rates and hospitalizations of vaccinated individuals, I am not sure I believe those numbers. Even if it was true.

Obesity being a factor for 30% of covid + how many non covid hospitalizations? 300,000 non covid deaths.

Then add in smokers to the equation.

Obesity/Smoking are both tracked as preventative deaths, implying it could have been preventative, implying the individual did not take necessary steps they could have to prevent it.

Cherrypicking data isn't a way to win your argument. You can't say statistics on obesity X, Y, Z and then later say, but I don't believe the statistics on this, that or the other.

The mandate for a vaccine is the best solution for this issue. A mandate for obesity or prohibition on smoking isn't a viable solution for those issue, nor would an immediate mandate make any difference anytime soon, as it pertains to COVID hospitalizations. Losing weight takes a lot of time. Twenty+ years of obesity causes lasting harm to the body that isn't removed when someone loses the weight. There is still lasting heart disease, cardiovascular disease, etc. Same with smoking; a person doesn't smoke for 30 years and then suddenly stop and no longer have COPD or eliminate their risk for COVID because they abruptly stopped, so your point isn't even viable, let along compatible to a vaccine mandate. It is a desperate attempt to create some slippery slope argument or logical inconsistency argument, but it is a failure.

Moreover, the vaccine is 99% effective at avoiding serious COVID cases, hospital admissions and deaths, and it is free and fast. How could you logically equate a vaccine mandate to an obesity mandate or smoking prohibition?

[spike021]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I have numerous times for free, however changing someone's mentality is very difficult. As I am sure you are aware ,other wise threads like this would probably not exist or at least wouldn't hit 60+ pages.

You know the saying lead them to water cant make them drink.

Most people don't have the will power, their desire to succeed in weight loss is less than there desire to continue in their current life style.

So how do we change this mentality, or how do we create the desire to lose weight or live a healthy life style to outweigh the desire to continue in an unhealthy lifestyle? Mandates perhaps?

So it's not easy. Not something that can be overnight. There are many reasons for it.

And to top it off, your own saying also works the other way.

In this case the vaccine is the water and we're all leading you to it but you refuse to use it.

So.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Cherrypicking data isn't a way to win your argument. You can't say statistics on obesity X, Y, Z and then later say, but I don't believe the statistics on this, that or the other.

The mandate for a vaccine is the best solution for this issue. A mandate for obesity or prohibition on smoking isn't a viable solution for those issue, nor would an immediate mandate make any difference anytime soon, as it pertains to COVID hospitalizations. Losing weight takes a lot of time. Twenty+ years of obesity causes lasting harm to the body that isn't removed when someone loses the weight. There is still lasting heart disease, cardiovascular disease, etc. Same with smoking; a person doesn't smoke for 30 years and then suddenly stop and no longer have COPD or eliminate their risk for COVID because they abruptly stopped, so your point isn't even viable, let along compatible to a vaccine mandate. It is a desperate attempt to create some slippery slope argument or logical inconsistency argument, but it is a failure.

Moreover, the vaccine is 99% effective at avoiding serious COVID cases, hospital admissions and deaths, and it is free and fast. How could you logically equate a vaccine mandate to an obesity mandate or smoking prohibition?

cherry picking? I posted direct from CDC,

He stated numbers without citing any sources, MuseChaser had posted somethings in previous posts that potentially contradicted those numbers. And I still continued my argument with the assumption that those numbers where correct despite not believing them.

What part of that is cherry picking? I could see the argument for cherry picking if I didn't continue with the premise that he was correct.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I posted the cost burden on the medical system associated with smoking and obesity, 300 billion smokers 190 billion obesity. That is not including those 2 being comorbidities for Covid since that data is more recent.

480,000 smoking deaths.
300,000 obesity deaths.

We would not only help alleviate a large burden from a covid standpoint even 30% perhaps?

We would dramatically alleviate a larger burden from non covid issues.

The greatest possible benefit.

300 billion smokers? Do you mean million?

Cessation of smoking tomorrow or having everyone magically lose weight to be skinning tomorrow wouldn't do much to change the burden on the healthcare system. That change takes years to decades. Smokers who quit who have COPD still have COPD. Obesity people who lose weight, still have plaque in their arteries from years of living obese. We would still see many COVID deaths among unvaccinated people who stopped smoking and who got skinning. Those people are much better protected from COVID by getting a vaccine than stopping smoking or getting skinny, and it happens right away.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I have numerous times for free, however changing someone's mentality is very difficult. As I am sure you are aware ,other wise threads like this would probably not exist or at least wouldn't hit 60+ pages.

You know the saying lead them to water cant make them drink.

Most people don't have the will power, their desire to succeed in weight loss is less than there desire to continue in their current life style.

So how do we change this mentality, or how do we create the desire to lose weight or live a healthy life style to outweigh the desire to continue in an unhealthy lifestyle? Mandates perhaps?

Your points are very well made, but very badly placed. The thread is not about all causes of unnecessary morbidity. It is about Covid. If your goal is to hi-jack the thread, you are apparently succeeding. Why not start a new thread on generalized unnecessary morbidity? Then we’ll have a place to talk about obesity, weight loss, dental hygiene, and … gun control.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by spike021

So it's not easy. Not something that can be overnight. There are many reasons for it.

And to top it off, your own saying also works the other way.

In this case the vaccine is the water and we're all leading you to it but you refuse to use it.

So.

I refuse to drink the water you provide, so what are you going to do mandate it?

They refuse to drink the water i provide, so what are you going to do mandate it?


Just because something is hard or challenging means it shouldn't be done?

What will have the greatest impact and greatest overall good to the world?


for another response, too many going on to keep up with.

Smoking 30yrs and then stopping it may be too late. but many people haven't started, just started, or aren't passed the point of no return and beyond hope. and even 30yrs in it is still better to stop than to just continue.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

cherry picking? I posted direct from CDC,

He stated numbers without citing any sources, MuseChaser had posted somethings in previous posts that potentially contradicted those numbers. And I still continued my argument with the assumption that those numbers where correct despite not believing them.

What part of that is cherry picking? I could see the argument for cherry picking if I didn't continue with the premise that he was correct.

The vaccine is 99% effective at preventing COVID deaths and hospitalizations.

Smoking and obesity are preexisting conditions that result in more COVID deaths among the unvaccinated. The pandemic has largely killed unvaccinated people, so any COVID death statistics related to obesity and smoking has more to do with unvaccinated people than with obesity and smoking. It is more effective for smokers and obese people to get vaccinated to avoid hospitailzations for COVID or death from COVID than it would be for them to stop smoking or lose weight. Moreover, if everyone stopped smoking and was skinny tomorrow, the unvaccinated would still be overwhelming the healthcare system, and those who had smoked for years and was obese for years would still be at a huge risk for COVID compared to non-smokers and people with a lifetime normal BMI.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

300 billion smokers? Do you mean million?

Cessation of smoking tomorrow or having everyone magically lose weight to be skinning tomorrow wouldn't do much to change the burden on the healthcare system. That change takes years to decades. Smokers who quit who have COPD still have COPD. Obesity people who lose weight, still have plaque in their arteries from years of living obese. We would still see many COVID deaths among unvaccinated people who stopped smoking and who got skinning. Those people are much better protected from COVID by getting a vaccine than stopping smoking or getting skinny, and it happens right away.

from cdc

Smoking-related illness in the United States costs more than $300 billion each year, including
More than $225 billion for direct medical care for adults
More than $156 billion in lost productivity, including $5.6 billion in lost productivity due to secondhand smoke exposure

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

from cdc

Smoking-related illness in the United States costs more than $300 billion each year, including
More than $225 billion for direct medical care for adults
More than $156 billion in lost productivity, including $5.6 billion in lost productivity due to secondhand smoke exposure

Aww you forgot the dollar sign and to make a clear statement.

So COVID has cost the US trillions. The cheapest and fastest solution will be the vaccine. It prevents 99% of COVID deaths and hospitalizations.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...e-16-trillion/