follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment

Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment Anything related to in-car electronics, navigation, and infotainment.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-28-2021, 06:26 PM   #15
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedSlip View Post
We can probably figure out the circuit topology and the resistors are clearly marked on their top sides. Unfortunately, the capacitors are either unmarked or their markings have all been very consistently placed face down prior to soldering. You can sort of guess at a range of values based on physical size but if they are truly unmarked they would have to be unsoldered and measured to determine the actual capacitance. Almost like it was intentional . . .
If you can take this picture and number which caps you think we need to identify the values of, I think I can make out the writing on the sides....

Name:  IMG_20210526_114253793~2.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  690.9 KB
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (05-28-2021)
Old 05-28-2021, 08:01 PM   #16
LimitedSlip
Senior Citizen Member
 
LimitedSlip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Then-1977 Celica GT Now-2017 860SE
Location: In A Galaxy Far Far Away
Posts: 327
Thanks: 108
Thanked 308 Times in 168 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
If you can take this picture and number which caps you think we need to identify the values of, I think I can make out the writing on the sides....
Wow, I couldn't pick out any markings on the capacitors! Well, we'll need all the caps in the vicinity of the LPF/HPF 4580 chips (IC101 and IC201). Here's a list. Let's see what we've got.

C107,108,109,110 (blue cans) - I can see they are 4.7uf but is there a voltage rating on them?

Probably the same value
C111
C112

Probably the same value
C207
C113

Probably the same value
C117
C118

Probably the same value
C201
C202

Probably the same value
C203
C204

Probably the same value
C302
C304

Probably the same value
C307
C309


Thanks!
LimitedSlip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LimitedSlip For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (05-28-2021)
Old 05-29-2021, 03:12 AM   #17
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I decided to set up my test station and go ahead with my plan to plot out the frequency vs. output voltage readings of the door speaker amplifier today.

Name:  IMG_20210529_023129797.jpg
Views: 142
Size:  465.4 KB

Name:  IMG_20210529_023218925.jpg
Views: 139
Size:  280.3 KB

I used an online tone generator from the Safari browser of my iPhone

Name:  IMG_20210529_023147996.jpg
Views: 143
Size:  238.9 KB

and through the headphone jack, I ran the left and right channels combined for a mono signal into both left and right signal inputs to the amp, with one volt meter reading the input voltage on both positive and both negative wires simultaneously.

Then ran several individual test tones from 5Hz all the way up to 2200Hz while keeping the signal input voltage steady at .250 VAC and monitoring the output voltage at the left negative and right positive speaker output wires with my other volt meter, and without any speakers connected.

Then proceeded to record each voltage output reading at each test tone frequency.

Here is the graph I plotted out,

Name:  FR-S, 86, BRZ OEM Door Speaker Amplifier Output Voltage Compared to Frequency, Input Voltage .25.png
Views: 141
Size:  7.0 KB

It was just like I figured initially, a low pass crossover with a subsonic filter.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.

Last edited by FR-S2GT86; 05-29-2021 at 12:43 PM.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
LimitedSlip (05-29-2021), soundman98 (05-29-2021)
Old 05-29-2021, 03:21 AM   #18
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
@LimitedSlip, I'll have to get back to you on those capacitor values.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
LimitedSlip (05-29-2021)
Old 05-29-2021, 09:09 AM   #19
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 14 BRZ 'Ranger', 18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 7,569
Thanks: 22,509
Thanked 9,025 Times in 4,491 Posts
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
@LimitedSlip, I'll have to get back to you on those capacitor values.
it doesn't always work in-circuit, but might be able to get a baseline:
https://www.amazon.com/Capacitance-R.../dp/B08KGBMGVB
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 12:34 PM   #20
LimitedSlip
Senior Citizen Member
 
LimitedSlip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Then-1977 Celica GT Now-2017 860SE
Location: In A Galaxy Far Far Away
Posts: 327
Thanks: 108
Thanked 308 Times in 168 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
@FR-S2GT86 Just doing some quick calculations it looks like the amp has a usable bandwidth from about 8 to 350 Hz as it is currently being filtered. The op-amps and power output chip appear to be good for the entire audio spectrum.
Attached Images
 
LimitedSlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 01:10 PM   #21
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
it doesn't always work in-circuit, but might be able to get a baseline:
https://www.amazon.com/Capacitance-R.../dp/B08KGBMGVB

My multi-meter has capacitance measuring capability, but like you mentioned, when the capacitors are still in the circuit, the readings may be misleading. The only true and accurate way to measure them properly would be to remove at least one connection point from the circuit board. Due to how small these components are though, that's something that I don't have the ability to do.

I'm going to get a good magnifying glass here in the next few days to try and make out the tiny writing on the smallest caps, like @LimitedSlip requested. My eyes just can't see as well as they did 20 years ago, and readers can only help so much. Trying to take extreme close-up shots that aren't blurry is almost impossible with a cell phone camera.

If anyone would like the raw graphing data from my test results so they can read it and change the logarithmic scalings of the data point settings, I saved it all to a file that opens with Grapher Online. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail the file to you, complete with a ReadMe text that shows you step-by-step how to load the file into the online tool.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 02:38 PM   #22
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 14 BRZ 'Ranger', 18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 7,569
Thanks: 22,509
Thanked 9,025 Times in 4,491 Posts
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
generally, SMD capacitors don't have markings unless they're polarized and then they only mark the one side of the component to indicate the polarity...
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2021, 03:40 PM   #23
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedSlip View Post
Wow, I couldn't pick out any markings on the capacitors! Well, we'll need all the caps in the vicinity of the LPF/HPF 4580 chips (IC101 and IC201). Here's a list. Let's see what we've got.

C107,108,109,110 (blue cans) - I can see they are 4.7uf but is there a voltage rating on them?

Probably the same value
C111
C112

Probably the same value
C207
C113

Probably the same value
C117
C118

Probably the same value
C201
C202

Probably the same value
C203
C204

Probably the same value
C302
C304

Probably the same value
C307
C309


Thanks!

Yeah, @soundman98 is correct. Unless they've been written in nanoscopic lettering, the capacitors don't have any values printed on them.

Name:  IMG_20210611_144710940~2.jpg
Views: 94
Size:  285.4 KB

The only really accurate way to measure them at this point would be to de-solder each one from the board and I'm not going to that extreme on this little side project.

However, not particularly a big issue anymore since we have the frequency characteristics of the amp output now, which was what I was wanting to know all along.

It would have been nice to simply use an oscilloscope or RTA and a pink-noise generator to test this amp's output characteristics, but I don't have one available, and Poppa needs to pay off his new head unit, so I won't be purchasing one any time soon. Priorities I suppose. It would also have been nice to have an amp dyno to measure the output with both channels loaded with 2 ohms each. Maybe that can be a project for someone else at some point.

I've been feeling lately that this build is like a 90's Zelda game with all of it's side quests that I feel OCD enough to complete just so that I can get that one last heart container.

Name:  Screenshot_20210611-152341~3.jpg
Views: 90
Size:  126.4 KB
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
bcj (06-12-2021), WildCard600 (06-11-2021)
Old 06-12-2021, 10:40 AM   #24
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 14 BRZ 'Ranger', 18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 7,569
Thanks: 22,509
Thanked 9,025 Times in 4,491 Posts
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
o-scopes don't need to break the bank

i've got a much older version of this. don't use it very often at all, but it's a nice tool to have around for a cheap enough price that i don't feel bad not using it all the time.

https://www.seeedstudio.com/DSO-Nano-v3.html

then look up 'benf firmware upgrade'. makes it much easier to use.
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to soundman98 For This Useful Post:
FR-S2GT86 (06-12-2021)
Old 06-12-2021, 12:17 PM   #25
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
o-scopes don't need to break the bank

i've got a much older version of this. don't use it very often at all, but it's a nice tool to have around for a cheap enough price that i don't feel bad not using it all the time.

https://www.seeedstudio.com/DSO-Nano-v3.html

then look up 'benf firmware upgrade'. makes it much easier to use.

Thanks for the recommendation. I値l eventually get something at some time in the future that is built specifically for car audio testing, probably the DM-RTA by Audio Control.

https://www.audiocontrol.com/pro-audio/dm-rta-pro-kit/

But for purposes of what I was after on this little side job, my two multimeters and the online signal generator worked okay. It just took a while longer than it needed to to get all the tests done and the information down in graphic format.

Hey man......old school.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (06-12-2021)
Old 06-12-2021, 06:52 PM   #26
LimitedSlip
Senior Citizen Member
 
LimitedSlip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Then-1977 Celica GT Now-2017 860SE
Location: In A Galaxy Far Far Away
Posts: 327
Thanks: 108
Thanked 308 Times in 168 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
Unless they've been written in nanoscopic lettering, the capacitors don't have any values printed on them.
Well, I certainly appreciate your effort. And you did confirm something useful about the frequency response of the amp for those who want to utilize it with an aftermarket head unit or speakers. Given the skill level required to work with surface mount devices, rather than trying to modify the amp to broaden it's usable frequency response it would probably be better to just plan on replacing it.
LimitedSlip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LimitedSlip For This Useful Post:
FR-S2GT86 (06-12-2021)
Old 06-12-2021, 09:56 PM   #27
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 14 BRZ 'Ranger', 18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 7,569
Thanks: 22,509
Thanked 9,025 Times in 4,491 Posts
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
i was really hoping we could figure out a way to safely bypass some of the filtering in an easy 'solder wire here and here' method
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 10:53 PM   #28
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 149
Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedSlip View Post
Well, I certainly appreciate your effort. And you did confirm something useful about the frequency response of the amp for those who want to utilize it with an aftermarket head unit or speakers. Given the skill level required to work with surface mount devices, rather than trying to modify the amp to broaden it's usable frequency response it would probably be better to just plan on replacing it.

Agreed. There are many choices of inexpensive aftermarket class-D amps that can be chosen to replace this OEM amp that would give you gain control, adjustable filtering, etc. But at least I learned something on this project.
It gives me more knowledge on why Mr. @Tcoat is unsatisfied with his factory system, and is giving me an opportunity to help him and others to increase the quality of sound coming from their "new and improved" factory systems by making a few tweaks of the wiring.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: Door Speaker Red Stitch Akuma-ZN6 Interior Parts (Incl. Lighting) 2 12-19-2019 11:57 AM
VIDEO GUIDE - Build your own door speaker mounts using the factory speaker shells. The Sentinel DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Guides 3 01-28-2016 05:39 PM
6.5in Speaker Adapters for Door - Really Necessary? geruta Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 2 04-26-2015 05:13 PM
Door speaker question BlackyRose Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 2 07-26-2013 10:45 PM
Door Speaker Vibration MattM232 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 16 03-19-2013 07:03 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.