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Old 01-13-2021, 02:13 PM   #589
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I know several people who are regular church attendees and they're doing just fine with video services and Zoom meetings for their smaller group studies. .
Strictly speaking, at least from a Christian standpoint and my interpretation, worship does not require a physical building but worship is considered a group activity. Worship is a celebration in song and may include teachings.

Prayer, which is different, is considered a private activity

Matthew 6:6

But you, when you pray, enter into your inner
chamber, and having shut your door, pray to
your Father who is in secret, and your Father
who sees in secret will reward you openly.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:19 PM   #590
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Maybe you just don't know how to interpret the data correctly?

No thanks, I'll just wear a mask instead.
Well, I spent over 40 years in the scientific field and I am quite experienced in interpreting data.

OK, wearing a mask is a good start - the rest is your call -
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:25 PM   #591
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Well, I spent over 40 years in the scientific field and I am quite experienced in interpreting data.

OK, wearing a mask is a good start - the rest is your call -
Which science field? How much medical experience do you have? Just curious.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:33 PM   #592
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That's great that they are able to make it work, but the government should not be allowed to deny those who want to meet in person, that's all I'm saying. That's probably why the Supreme Court determined that states cannot implement stricter regulations on religious institutions and I'm glad they came to that conclusion.



My claims apply to much more than just church, I'm talking about private family gatherings, in person schools, outdoor/indoor dining, etc. People will look back at this time period and be ashamed of how much they were willing to sacrifice for a false sense of safety. That's just my personal opinion.

PS: Moderators I apologize if this comment was borderline political, I did not intend for it to be taken as such and won't go any further. I only mentioned the Supreme Court as a backing for my claim.
I think some of these points just don't make much sense to be honest. Private family gatherings have been ok at different periods with limited numbers of households. Through the whole summer I was having almost bi-weekly weekend lunches with my parents at parks and stuff outdoors in a nice environment. Physically distanced enough and outdoors to be safe, but still in each other's company. And it was actually nice.

As far as in person schooling vs remote learning, in the end I think that's more on our education system not being prepared, nor having proper tooling in place for this kind of situation. If a hurricane or severe earthquake decimates a neighborhood/community and it's not possible to go to a school campus for 3-6 months while it's being rebuilt, but internet is back and available much sooner than that, we should have resources available to allow mostly equivalent learning experiences. It'd be a very similar situation.

Nothing here is permanent, and because of what you said about the Supreme Court, there's no worry about even precedent being set.

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Strictly speaking, at least from a Christian standpoint and my interpretation, worship does not require a physical building but worship is considered a group activity. Worship is a celebration in song and may include teachings.

Prayer, which is different, is considered a private activity

Matthew 6:6

But you, when you pray, enter into your inner
chamber, and having shut your door, pray to
your Father who is in secret, and your Father
who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Yep! I understand that!

Like I've said though, I've actually seen friends/relatives attending over Zoom or whatever video conference being used. They still do their 10-15 minutes of worship before the sermon begins, the in-service prayer still happens. Maybe they can't physically hear other people on the stream singing, but that doesn't mean they aren't singing. (besides, I've been to church services where even in-person not everybody is singing in worship ).

Nobody is saying this needs to be permanent, but I think in many cases for what we're dealing with it's a pretty suitable alternative.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:35 PM   #593
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Well, I spent over 40 years in the scientific field and I am quite experienced in interpreting data.

OK, wearing a mask is a good start - the rest is your call -
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Originally Posted by funwheeldrive View Post
Which science field? How much medical experience do you have? Just curious.
Hey, I take whatever the "big man" is saying without question. And he's got a big "fuck off" mask so no messing, please move on..
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:37 PM   #594
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Yep! I understand that!.
I think we're saying the same thing. I believe virtual gathering for worship is no different than gathering in a physical location, either permanent or temporary.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:39 PM   #595
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I think we're saying the same thing. I believe virtual gathering for worship is no different than gathering in a physical location, either permanent or temporary.
Ahh, yeah we are. Heh. I was multitasking during a work meeting. Whoops.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:47 PM   #596
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I look back on my behavior in this past year with solemn satisfaction that, for my family, community, and especially those most vulnerable, I have personally done all I could to remain part of the solution.

I am astounded that, in this information age, it is even a remotely controversial subject. Are we really arguing over our personal freedom to knowingly place others at risk?
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:57 PM   #597
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I look back on my behavior in this past year with solemn satisfaction that, for my family, community, and especially those most vulnerable, I have personally done all I could to remain part of the solution.

I am astounded that, in this information age, it is even a remotely controversial subject. Are we really arguing over our personal freedom to knowingly place others at risk?
Many people are selfish and the concept that the problem is themselves never even registers on their mind. They get defensive when somebody points it out and go to extreme lengths to feel like they are righteous.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:59 PM   #598
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I look back on my behavior in this past year with solemn satisfaction that, for my family, community, and especially those most vulnerable, I have personally done all I could to remain part of the solution.
I feel the same. Considering in my immediate household (under same roof) I have 3 of 4 persons that are potentially exposed every day (two working a hospital system, one working in a school system) I believe the fact that so far we have not come down with COVID attests to that.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:02 PM   #599
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Which science field? How much medical experience do you have? Just curious.
Scientific fields including agronomy, entomology, chemistry, toxicology, pharmacology - that's all I can remember -

Medical experience - lots of medical operations, where I was the patient -

Now, it's time for my scientifically designed nap -
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:28 PM   #600
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I got an email from my health insurance with the state's vaccine rollout plan. Looks like the vaccine will be available to the general public here starting May.

My son in the Navy had covid in November and finally tested negative in December. He just had the first dose and is sick again and now tests positive again.
I think it will be sooner than that. Because so many healthcare workers are refusing, there are more doses available, so they are moving to new 65+ and other essential workers. Depending on their response to taking the vaccine, we may see the rollout to the general public much sooner.

Geez that sucks. Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully, he will be ok. I'm curious if they will do a test to see if this the same virus or a different strain just to make sure that other test wasn't a false negative; some people can show positive for a long time. Other people seem to stop shedding and show negative in a short time, but still have residual symptoms.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:29 PM   #601
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FYI, I am 90-95% better. I'm mostly over the effects of the vaccine and just recovering from staying in bed for a few days.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:30 PM   #602
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My comment was in regards to people not fearing Covid19, not just the vaccine. Again, I'm not saying that people over the age of 65 don't matter as much as younger people, but to force healthy, asymptomatic people from operating their small business or attending a wedding or going to church is terribly wrong, even under the false guise of "safety". The bulk of these lockdowns and mandates are nonsensical and not founded on solid data, yet they are pushed by politicians attempting to give the illusion that they have everything under control and are there to keep the general public safe. You say that mask mandates will allow us to open up the economy again yet California "had" to lockdown and implement curfews for the majority of the state months after they implemented their mandate.
Everyone should fear COVID, if not directly of its effects on themselves then on its effects on others, and thus, they should fear the roll they have in potentially transmitting that virus to a vulnerable person.

Lawmakers have been forced into action. Society, in aggregate, has not shown an ability to prevent the spread of this virus on their own by following mask mandates and social distancing recommendations. The data is OVERWHELMING. Not wearing a mask and gathering spreads the virus. Again, lawmakers have been forced into action in order to maintain a functional healthcare system, so it does not get completely flooded and overwhelmed into a gridlock and utter chaos.

Look at this event. Which person is the asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic person in the group? How many people will be positive from this event? We have direct examples all over the country of super spreading events like weddings directly leading to deaths. This isn't a debatable subject. Here is an article from the CDC talking about a wedding reception in Maine that resulted in 177 new cases, seven hospitalization and seven deaths (four of which were in hospital).



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a5.htm

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Me deciding to not get a vaccine doesn't mean I'm responsible for someone dying. Also, hospitals do screen all their employees, but performing tests on everyone on a regular basis when they have no symptoms or don't meet testing criteria is contraindicated and wasteful.
It is negligent. I think it is your right to not get a vaccine, and it is their right to suspend employees who don't. If you do get a vaccine, but it fails to protect you, and you get COVID anyways and spread it then no one can blame you for making an honest attempt at protecting the patients you serve. The vaccine is another form of PPE for you and the patient, no different than your mask, gloves, gown or anything else that creates a barrier from them to you and you to them.

Screening isn't done everywhere, and it isn't performed with a high degree of scrutiny. We use infrared scanners on the necks of people walking into the hospital after walking out of 30-50 degree or colder weather. This isn't an accurate way to screen caregivers. Our hospital has said it will follow the optional recommendations by the state to test their employees, saying they would begin testing weekly, but that was weeks ago, and they haven't, yet SNFs, assisted living facilities, longer term care facilities, etc have had this mandate or recommendation and have been randomly or broadly screening its employees for months. Why not the hospital too? We have had multiple outbreaks in the hospital, but what the hospital fears the most is finding asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic caregivers because they are worried about staffing levels, accountability, the need to do contact tracing, and the cost of paying healthy workers overtime to compensate for staff who are quarantined--profits over patients. If we are symptomatic then we are advised to stay home and get tested, except our work will not pay for it unless they determined or are requesting the test related to a workplace exposure. I could go on with other grievances and examples.

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Better lock the whole country down immediately!! (except cannabis stores, Hollywood movie sets, fast food joints, and other essential businesses of course)
Lawmakers will be forced to act until hospitalizations fall, enough ICU beds become available, the transmission rate drops and the death rate drops. It is fairly simple. Every day where we see rising deaths is a day of loss, is a day of failure and is a day that demonstrates how we are getting further from, instead of closer to, returning to our normal way of life. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is a reality that needs to be reiterated until it improves, so we don't devolve into complacency.
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