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Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86


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Old 02-21-2014, 02:24 PM   #141
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I think both Subaru and Scion could do a better job of advertising. When I started telling people about the FR-S I am about to buy, more than 90% of them tell me that they've never heard of or ever seen the car.
This. I can't recall EVER seeing a commercial on TV for the BRZ in my area - and my TV is on "guy" channels most of the time it's on.

A buddy of mine is a Vette owner and a car guy. He likes my car a lot, but his comment the first time he saw it about a month ago was, "I don't really know much about the BRZ."
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:29 PM   #142
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The tC is still around, isn't it?

Given that I've not seen a single BRZ anywhere within a 50 mile radius of where I live, I am perfectly fine with low numbers and the potential of the car becoming truly LIMITED.

Heck, I've only seen one FRS around here a couple times.

I've never really wanted a Mustang because around here every 5th car you see is a Mustang. I'm sure I'd be happy to own one, but I'd rather do something different.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:51 PM   #143
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In the USDM, they have to expect sales will dip in the winter. It's just going to happen with a RWD light sports coupe I would think. We'll see if numbers spike back up in spring/summer.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:52 PM   #144
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One or two per day is a lot man. I only see one or zero per month in Hong Kong lol. But dude, cars in Canada are really cheap, the FRS cost 57k CAD here.
This is very true.
We don't get the ridiculous "100%" tariffs/duties/levies that HKers face for buying cars.

Not to mention fuel, parking and insurance are also ridiculous in HK.

The point is, I get the sense the story isn't nearly as glum as the headline paints it (at least ex-Europe)
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #145
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In the USDM, they have to expect sales will dip in the winter. It's just going to happen with a RWD light sports coupe I would think. We'll see if numbers spike back up in spring/summer.
If I remember correctly, the January 2014 sales numbers were down 50% vs. the January 2013 numbers. I think we're already startingt to see the decline.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #146
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They need to completely forget about a convertible and focus on what people really want. Why are most people who are in the market for an affordable sports car not buying it? It's almost certainly due to power. Even if they bumped the power up a little, it would likely be enough to satisfy many Americans who are used to good power from their previous vehicle.

However, I think it's quite normal that sales are tapering off now. That's why most manufacturers have 2 year refresh cycles. So, fix the reliability concerns with the car and give it more power with a smooth torque band and maybe add things like an arm-rest (but not that funky clunky Scion one they came out with recently). Then the sales should pick up again for another two years at least.
i doubt thats the issue. i feel liek 80% of the people complaining about the lack of power are already owners so its not really the issue. i think the problem is that with cars like this is that the people that want them have already bought them. the z works because it looks better on paper than its price tag would suggest.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:04 PM   #147
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Throw a Turbo in, or Stroke the engine out, however you do it Toyota....up it to 250-300 HP

And, hell....no other cars can beat it. People would never consider Twice...they would even buy 86 instead of another Sedan even
Only if the price stay below $30k.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:26 PM   #148
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I really don't believe the article based on the source. That said I would not be surprised if sales have been slowing for several reasons:
- This car got a ton of positive press in 2012 both prior to release and then after release. Tons of awards and accolades and for most of 2012 it was hard to find.
- It is now 2014 and there are slew of cars coming out in the next 12 months that are going to steal sales. WRX/STI, GTI, Golf R, Mustang, Miata etc. I have to believe there are people waiting on the sidelines for these cars to get released to compare to the FT86. Also the Focus ST which you can get loaded here for $22K. Recaro seats, NAV, push button start, etc.
- This has been the worst winter in the US since the 70's. I am sure sales in December-Feb are down for this car, but this is not an FT86 thing here in the US. It is a bad Winter thing and light 2 door RWD coupes on summer tires are going to sit on lots. The same two Focus ST's I test drove in early December are still sitting on the lot.

I really don't buy that we won't see more variants. All of the R&D, etc has been essentially done. Slap a turbo 1.6 or 2.0 engine in the car and call it a day. Give it about 230hp and 210ft lbs of torque and sell it for 3-4 more years and then either kill it off, continue to milk it, or come out with a revised model.

I would not believe the article 100%, time will tell.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:47 PM   #149
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This is a single source article on what amounts to a blog. It references no sales data, and inflates the source's title to give him more credibility than he deserves.

Stop the pants shitting and hand wringing every time something bad is said about the cars.

Honestly it took like 5 posts until someone was talking about them being cancelled without even remotely considering actual sales numbers in its segment, which are awesome.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #150
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I believe the US sales goal was 20,000 units a year, and it did 18,000.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:27 PM   #151
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Pretty predictable outcome, was very doubtful of all these variations coming out
as soon as they started talking about them. Great for our car values if this all
comes to fruition.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:12 PM   #152
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I am not sure why a lot of people in this thread seem to think the 86/FR-S/BRZ are going to end production soon. It does not say that anywhere in the article. It simply says that there are not high enough sales volumes to justify developing variants. That just means no convertible, no turbo etc.

This does not surprise me at all. It is just history repeating itself. Toyota has done this all before. For example, when they released the MR-S/MR2 Spyder/MR2 Roadster the press releases read almost verbatim to the releases 13 years later when the triplets were released. The magazine articles also read almost exactly the same. I have all the original articles when the MR2 Spyder was released in the US. It almost looks like they used copy and paste to write the FR-S articles. The MR-S was supposed to be limited production (hear that before?). There were only supposed to be 5000 sold per year in the US. The first two years of production exceeded that goal by a good margin. The third year the sales began to slow. Toyota said there was not enough demand to justify further development or more power. So they never built the 2ZZ MR-S that a good many people indicated they wanted. The production run for the MR-S ran from 1999 to 2007.

Notice the similarities?
"limited production"
"niche vehicle"
"bring back excitement to Toyota"
released to widespread praise in the automotive press

It seems Toyota talks a good game but just does not know how to produce a car that does not sell to the tune of Camry numbers. They do this over and over. Same story for the MR2 MKII, Toyota Supra, MR2 Spyder.

The 86/FR-S will have at least a 6 year production run (for the US). Just do not expect any major upgrades during that time. That is not how MR T works.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:48 PM   #153
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Just figure out what Mazda keeps doing and follow that trend.


... which likely means no high performance model because those tend to cost more money then people are actually wiling to pay.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:14 PM   #154
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Just figure out what Mazda keeps doing and follow that trend.


... which likely means no high performance model because those tend to cost more money then people are actually wiling to pay.
The miata remains relevant because it is a one size fits all model. enthusiasts can modify in a performance direction, whereas the stock form is perfectly fine for old guys and women, given that its a convertible.

i think the 86 twins already do this, aside from having the drop top. i see many women and older drivers driving the twins. the price is probably the one thing that may hurt the longevity of this car. the enthusiast crowd alone cannot sustain sales of niche cars like this.
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