2022 Nissan Z Coupe

[KR-S]

Eh, either name works; you can either name it the 300Z because of its displacement, or you can name it the 400Z because of its rated horsepower (assuming of course Nissan uses the VR30DDTT).

[Sasquachulator]

all manufacturers that use the alphanumeric numbering scheme is facing this same dilemma.

Customers are too stupid to realize that a lower number isnt a downgrade over a higher number. Especially when the numbers have historically been matched with displacement, when the engines got bigger it just felt like an upgrade. But when they got smaller now you have the "cheap" version. Nowadays with engine downsizing a turbos, it was more or less OK to have the number followed by a T to indicate turbo but it got to a strange point where the smaller engines correlated with the lower end cars and it became a whole nomenclature mess (since they could share the smaller engines WITH the higher end cars, and just pump up the boost to make more power for the bigger cars)

I would just have the suffix be V6 or i4 or something, then the name doesnt correlate with displacement.

So for the 300Z....just call it a 300Z V6TT or something.

[pallen]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

all manufacturers that use the alphanumeric numbering scheme is facing this same dilemma.

Customers are too stupid to realize that a lower number isnt a downgrade over a higher number. Especially when the numbers have historically been matched with displacement, when the engines got bigger it just felt like an upgrade. But when they got smaller now you have the "cheap" version. Nowadays with engine downsizing a turbos, it was more or less OK to have the number followed by a T to indicate turbo but it got to a strange point where the smaller engines correlated with the lower end cars and it became a whole nomenclature mess (since they could share the smaller engines WITH the higher end cars, and just pump up the boost to make more power for the bigger cars)

I would just have the suffix be V6 or i4 or something, then the name doesnt correlate with displacement.

So for the 300Z....just call it a 300Z V6TT or something.

I like 300ZT. Keeps then convention, but it’s not a name they’ve used before. Indicates it’s turbo so maybe it won’t feel like a step back to those that care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

all manufacturers that use the alphanumeric numbering scheme is facing this same dilemma.

Customers are too stupid to realize that a lower number isnt a downgrade over a higher number. Especially when the numbers have historically been matched with displacement, when the engines got bigger it just felt like an upgrade. But when they got smaller now you have the "cheap" version. Nowadays with engine downsizing a turbos, it was more or less OK to have the number followed by a T to indicate turbo but it got to a strange point where the smaller engines correlated with the lower end cars and it became a whole nomenclature mess (since they could share the smaller engines WITH the higher end cars, and just pump up the boost to make more power for the bigger cars)

I would just have the suffix be V6 or i4 or something, then the name doesnt correlate with displacement.

So for the 300Z....just call it a 300Z V6TT or something.

How do you make ignorant people smarter? Don't cater to their stupidity.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

How do you make ignorant people smarter? Don't cater to their stupidity.

That helps in life, but not always in marketing.

[pallen]

Yeah, car manufacturers don’t care about making people more or less stupid. The only care what sells more cars

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

all manufacturers that use the alphanumeric numbering scheme is facing this same dilemma.

Customers are too stupid to realize that a lower number isnt a downgrade over a higher number. Especially when the numbers have historically been matched with displacement, when the engines got bigger it just felt like an upgrade. But when they got smaller now you have the "cheap" version. Nowadays with engine downsizing a turbos, it was more or less OK to have the number followed by a T to indicate turbo but it got to a strange point where the smaller engines correlated with the lower end cars and it became a whole nomenclature mess (since they could share the smaller engines WITH the higher end cars, and just pump up the boost to make more power for the bigger cars)

I would just have the suffix be V6 or i4 or something, then the name doesnt correlate with displacement.

So for the 300Z....just call it a 300Z V6TT or something.

People aren't that stupid, nor do they care that much. No one says I want a 5 series over a 3 series because the badge number is higher, nor do they say I want a 340i over a 330i because they want the larger number. Frankly, it is surprising they even add these types of badges.

I debadge all my cars because I think all of that advertisement is silly like it was really stupid when early 90's vehicles had EFI badges and 24V DOHC badges. Like, do I need to know that your VW is a TDI? Does a 911 turbo or Taycan need to say Turbo S? I feel like a top spec R badge or RS, M, AMG, GT, etc is about all that should be there along with the manufacture's emblem.

I think a 200Z and 300Z is all the advertisement they would need. Anyone buying the 300Z knows what's going on. The car community was fine with the 350Z not being a 350ZX because the luxury and expense wasn't necessary or there, but I recall the community was not happy with the 350Z, even though the badge had a larger number because the 300ZX had more power, and that was part of the tradition of the badges too and the subsequent generations--more displacement and more power. I think they should stick to displacement, and let the power be whatever it is going to be. If they do one engine with different power outputs then they could do 300ZS and 300ZR or something inline with past nomenclature.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I debadge all my cars because I think all of that advertisement is silly like it was really stupid when early 90's vehicles had EFI badges and 24V DOHC badges. Like, do I need to know that your VW is a TDI? Does a 911 turbo or Taycan need to say Turbo S? I feel like a top spec R badge or RS, M, AMG, GT, etc is about all that should be there along with the manufacture's emblem.

I think a 200Z and 300Z is all the advertisement they would need. Anyone buying the 300Z knows what's going on. The car community was fine with the 350Z not being a 350ZX because the luxury and expense wasn't necessary or there, but I recall the community was not happy with the 350Z, even though the badge had a larger number because the 300ZX had more power, and that was part of the tradition of the badges too and the subsequent generations--more displacement and more power. I think they should stick to displacement, and let the power be whatever it is going to be. If they do one engine with different power outputs then they could do 300ZS and 300ZR or something inline with past nomenclature.

Don't forget about when GM used to put badges on their cars that came equipped with ABS

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Don't forget about when GM used to put badges on their cars that came equipped with ABS

AWD/4x4/Quattro/4Motion badges, don't care.
VTEC/24V/EFI badges, don't care.
Hybrid badges, don't care.
TRD offroad badges, don't care.
Dual motor badges, don't care.
TFSI badges, stupid.
SE, DX, LX, EX, etc badges, don't care. Do I need to know that you Honda came with leather, power door locks and a sunroof? Can people not read a Monroney sticker?

[pallen]

My favorite is the HEMI badge to let everyone know your engine uses an outdated combustion chamber design.

[Irace86.2.0]

It really isn't even a Hemi, but that is the power of marketing.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

People aren't that stupid, nor do they care that much. No one says I want a 5 series over a 3 series because the badge number is higher, nor do they say I want a 340i over a 330i because they want the larger number.

Actually, that's exactly why a lot of people buy (or lease) cars - to show off, for the status of it, to brag to others about how much their car cost.

I know someone who regularly sells his current Bee-mer and buys (leases) another one, but only if the next one is a 'higher' model number, because he always wants to be 'moving up'. He's done exactly that, gone from a 325 to a 330 then the big leap to a 535 then a 545 and now he's aching for an 8-series. It was a big deal for him to 'step up' from a 3-series to a 5-series. He would be happiest if BMW simply put the sticker price on the back of the car instead of the numerical model designation.

There are a lot of people for whom it's more important to try to impress semi-strangers at a bar or gym and what they think about their car, and even more, how much it cost (as a reflection on how 'rich' they are), than what they themselves think about how the car drives. BMW and the other high-dollar German manufacturers know this, and it features prominently in their marketing/advertising - "to convey the affluence and good taste of the owner".

This is one of the things Subaru has going against it - it's just not seen as a "premium" brand. Outside of gearheads who love the WRX/STi, it's also not seen by the general public as a manufacturer of 'sports' cars. There have been so many people that have complimented my car and asked what it is, and then are shocked beyond belief when I tell them it's a Subaru. I love doing it just to see the looks on their faces, the pained, contorted look of disbelief and incomprehension as they squawk "Subaru?!?!"

So, yes, most people are that stupid.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Actually, that's exactly why a lot of people buy (or lease) cars - to show off, for the status of it, to brag to others about how much their car cost.

I know someone who regularly sells his current Bee-mer and buys (leases) another one, but only if the next one is a 'higher' model number, because he always wants to be 'moving up'. He's done exactly that, gone from a 325 to a 330 then the big leap to a 535 then a 545 and now he's aching for an 8-series. It was a big deal for him to 'step up' from a 3-series to a 5-series. He would be happiest if BMW simply put the sticker price on the back of the car instead of the numerical model designation.

There are a lot of people for whom it's more important to try to impress semi-strangers at a bar or gym and what they think about their car, and even more, how much it cost (as a reflection on how 'rich' they are), than what they themselves think about how the car drives. BMW and the other high-dollar German manufacturers know this, and it features prominently in their marketing/advertising - "to convey the affluence and good taste of the owner".

This is one of the things Subaru has going against it - it's just not seen as a "premium" brand. Outside of gearheads who love the WRX/STi, it's also not seen by the general public as a manufacturer of 'sports' cars. There have been so many people that have complimented my car and asked what it is, and then are shocked beyond belief when I tell them it's a Subaru. I love doing it just to see the looks on their faces, the pained, contorted look of disbelief and incomprehension as they squawk "Subaru?!?!"

So, yes, most people are that stupid.

There are a lot of people in the world, so saying a lot of people doesn't mean much. These people are in the extreme minority. It is easier to save the $10k+ and just debadge the car or to buy some new badges on eBay or at a dealership, so that 320i says M3 or 340i.

No one buys an Audi A4/A5 because it is a larger number than a comparable BMW 3/4 series. Come on man. If BMW added a zero to the end of each of its sedans such that that 340i became the 3400i then their sales wouldn't go up. If BMW bumped every model up by two number then it wouldn't sudden lead to flock of new buyers.

Similarly, no one is going to pass on a 300Z, who would have purchased a 400Z just because of the badge. Customers will simply see a car that catches their eye and decide to buy it if they like it. Most people who own the cars won't be enthusiasts and could care less about badges.

Subaru isn't a premium brand, and most people are clueless about cars, so much so, that they couldn't identify a Subaru logo from a manufacture emblem lineup. I get people asking me all the time, but I have a T3Q badge on the rear and a Subaru up front with no other badges and my car looks far from stock.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

There are a lot of people in the world, so saying a lot of people doesn't mean much. These people are in the extreme minority.

With regular ‘cheap’ cooking vehicles like hatches, sedans, and SUVs, that may be so. Most non-luxury, non-enthusiast car buyers actually don’t care much about cars, just as long as it looks nice, has good seats and cupholders.

But where I disagree is premium car and sportscar buyers. They are a bit different to the typical soccer-mom buying an SUV to ferry the kids around. There is definitely a much higher ratio of image conscious buyers when you get to the expensive, luxury and high performance end of the market. Image and conspicuous consumption definitely matters to many people shopping BMWs, Audis, MBs etc. Of course it does, because if they were shopping on purely rational criteria, they’d probably just buy a Honda or Lexus that does everything they need with better value and more reliability.

It is easier to save the $10k+ and just debadge the car or to buy some new badges on eBay or at a dealership, so that 320i says M3 or 340i.

Sure, you can put phoney higher spec badges on your base model, but you will look stupid to those you’re trying to impress. The kind of people who buy premium/luxury cars as a status symbol to impress others, will not want to look silly. Most of them won’t be swapping out badges if its obvious they are not legit.

No one buys an Audi A4/A5 because it is a larger number than a comparable BMW 3/4 series.

Maybe, but I know people who definitely try to climb the model number ladder inside brands, for example, they’d rather be seen in a base spec 520i with the anaemic 4 banger engine, than in a 340i with that sweet inline 6. To most enthusiasts the smaller car with the more powerful engine makes more sense, but plenty of image conscious buyers would prefer to be seen in the one with the more impressive and expensive sounding model number.

Similarly, no one is going to pass on a 300Z, who would have purchased a 400Z just because of the badge.

Never say never. For certain there will be a few potential buyers who walk in, and when they realise the 370Z is being replaced with a 300Z, will assume a downgrade and walk over to the Ford dealership to bag a Mustang GT500 (get it, because 500 trumps 300 or even 400!)

Now it’s true that most enthusiasts, who research the car’s specs, will go in knowing the 3.0 TT is much more powerful, and tuneable, than the old NA 3.7, and that’s fine. They, and true Z purists, will appreciate a 300Z model designation, not the least because the 300ZX TT was probably the second most loved Z in all the generations, after the original 240Z.

It’s not so much the enthusiasts who research their cars we are talking about, more the casual sportscar buyer who is looking for an image enhancing car, something to impress others at stoplights. To such a buyer, a 400Z does sound more attractive than a 300Z, especially when the previous model was a 370Z. 400Z implies progress over the 370, where 300 implies a downgrade. Obviously such a buyer is pretty ignorant, but they do exist, and car makers still want to sell cars to them.

Bear in mind, I say all this, but I am one of those who thinks 300Z is the best name for a 3.0, because again, it evokes the fond memories of the 300ZX which was an amazing performance car in its day, something that could go head to head with Corvettes. New one might not be able to compete with the C8, but it should hopefully give the Supra a fight.