2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen it.

But... yikes... so this is what the world is coming to? $42,000 for a 4 cylinder Mustang? Or $51,000 for a 4 cylinder Toyota made by BMW? That doesn't even offer a manual transmission?!?! I think it sure makes a new BRZ/86 for half the price and a lot much fun seem like one hell of a bargain.

I also have a 2015 Mustang GT, and paid less for a loaded V8 than the test car in the article. The V8 engine is great in an old-school muscle car torque-and-noise kind of way, a lot of fun to relive 1960's pony car memories. But the car itself isn't built to anywhere even close to the quality standards of a Japanese car. "Creaky" doesn't even begin to describe the interior.

I also wouldn't want to bet on the longevity of a 2.3 liter Ford engine that squeezes out 330 hp. The Focus RS engine on which it's based seemed to have problems.

I personally like the looks of the new Supra, but could never deal with 1) it's made by BMW and thus will be the least reliable, most expensive to repair and maintain Toyota in history, 2) a manual isn't available in the car so why bother, and 3) the price?!?!? Really?!?!?! Like I said, a BRZ/86 for half the cost and so much more fun seems like a better deal.

Oh well... I'm sure there are enough buyers out there who just have to have a new Zupra, and are thrilled at being able to get the 4 cylinder car for less money than the 6 (and probably couldn't even tell you how many cylinders their car has, or care). And I applaud Ford and any manufacturer for continuing to offer a manual transmission in any car these days.

Don't forget that these cars are doing 13 second quarter mile times and sub 5 second 0-60. Both are also well spec'd in features over an 86. I'm not really surprised by the prices at all.

I agree that the Mustang is out classed in quality by the Supra. The weight/handling, rarity and looks of the Supra make it a more appealing buy than the Mustang for me until I get to the lack of manual transmission on the Supra, and I don't buy either. Ford produces more Mustangs with a manual than Toyobaru produces in total 86s, so I am not surprised they are maintaining their manual transmissions.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by LimitedSlip

I agree, but:

"Before the bow-tie-tattoo community moans over the lack of a Camaro 1LE in this test, know that we asked for one—initially for the turbo four-banger and then, after realizing the naturally aspirated V-6 would be a better fit, for one of those. The answer was a polite "no" both times. Maybe Chevy thinks its Camaro SS 1LE is the best fit."

I read that, and even acknowledged that in my comment. The four cylinder 1le would have done just fine in this comparison.

[vh_supra26]

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

You have ridden in an 86 right?

Mine has creaked and moaned since Day 1. I've owned plenty of Japanese and Domestic cars. As far as I'm concerned the "Japanese quality standards" is just a myth. They all hold up about equally well these days.

I ride in a BRZ/86 quite often, as I own a 2019 BRZ, so I can make first-hand comparisons between the quality of the BRZ vs the Mustang.

To me, there is indeed a significant difference in both the quality of the materials used, and the construction quality, between the two cars. On the Mustang the interior plastics are harder, shinier, more poorly fitted, more creaks and groans. The body panel gaps are also laughable, ranging from too tight to slip a sheet of paper between to big enough to sling a cat through.

The BRZ is certainly no luxury car, and has it's share of creaks as well. But compared to my Mustang, it feels like a Lexus. The BRZ makes use of a lot of fairly inexpensive materials, but again most of them simply feel better to the touch than those in the Mustang.

There is no comparison in reliability between the two cars. The Mustang has been a babied garage queen, kept covered and has less than 10k miles. Yet it's been plagued with nuisance issues since the day I bought it. Electrical gremlins, sporadically working rear view camera, hit-or-miss navigation system, and a balky recalcitrant manual transmission that's now the subject of a class action lawsuit against Ford.

You may be absolutely right with your observation that 'They all hold up about equally well these days' when it comes to how long the basic engine itself will last. But the two groups of cars (Japanese vs American) certainly feel significantly different to me. After owning well over 100 cars in my life, about 1/2 of them bought new, with multiple examples of Japanese, American, and European cars, my own experiences and observations remain consistent. The engines in the American cars might last about as long as any others, but the rest of the car feels noticeably crappier getting there.

YMMV.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Don't forget that these cars are doing 13 second quarter mile times and sub 5 second 0-60. Both are also well spec'd in features over an 86. I'm not really surprised by the prices at all.

That's exactly the trade-off with the Mustang, and American cars in general. You get a big powerful V8 engine. Your money goes for horsepower and torque, and not construction quality. I paid under $40k for the Mustang GT loaded with pretty much every option available. It's hard to find 435 hp (now 460 hp) for that kind of money.

Like most things regarding cars, there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Neither chocolate nor vanilla are right or wrong. It just depends what a buyer wants, what the priorities are. If you want maximum power and performance for the dollar, the Mustang (or other American cars) are the way to go. If you want reliability, durability, and construction quality, then Japanese sports cars will be more satisfying.

Performance, quality, price. You can have any two you want. With some cars, you're lucky if you even get one. The Mustang gives you performance at a price. The BRZ/86, quality and price. If you want performance and quality, it will cost a lot more than either of those cars.

You pays your money and you takes your choices.

[gymratter]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/tit...n-the-8s.6678/

[LimitedSlip]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-maintenance/

[AnalogMan]

It's not maintenance in the first 10,000 miles I'd be worried about. It's what happens after the warranty has expired.

[gymratter]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/tes...upra-2-0.6692/

[bcj]

Originally Posted by gymratter

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/tit...n-the-8s.6678/

Looks like a 3hp trolling engine. Does it float?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

It's not maintenance in the first 10,000 miles I'd be worried about. It's what happens after the warranty has expired.

[Mr.ac]

10k miles and they felt it was a milestone? Bitch please.
All the more reason to hate these lame ass car "journalists"

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Not an argument

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Not an argument

95% in jest.