Before I pull the Motor... again...

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

So what you're saying - there's a chance my motor might be fine, and that the quality of the gas I got (used the station outside of the track) might be to blame for the power loss?

That would explain why I am having no other symptoms except the power loss. No Smoke, No Cels.

I traditionally fill up with Holiday's 91 Non-Oxy - should I use that or go with the 91 that has 10% ethanol in it?

(Perk of using the non-oxy, I don't have crickets )

After your current issue, and a decent suspicion of a gas problem. I would personally run a tank of the highest octane possible.


Like going out of the way to find something with over 93.


http://www.bradysservice.com/about/gas-station.aspx


There you go? Quick googling.... IDK.

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

So what you're saying - there's a chance my motor might be fine, and that the quality of the gas I got (used the station outside of the track) might be to blame for the power loss?

That would explain why I am having no other symptoms except the power loss. No Smoke, No Cels.

I traditionally fill up with Holiday's 91 Non-Oxy - should I use that or go with the 91 that has 10% ethanol in it?

(Perk of using the non-oxy, I don't have crickets )

I'm no expert by any means but yes I would think there's a chance it's okay. About the fuel here in michigan the whole ethanol free fuel isn't very big so I'm not too knowledgable on it but I would assume the 91 Non-Oxy would be better as it will allow for better fuel trims.

[nunonuna]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

So what you're saying - there's a chance my motor might be fine, and that the quality of the gas I got (used the station outside of the track) might be to blame for the power loss?

That would explain why I am having no other symptoms except the power loss. No Smoke, No Cels.

I traditionally fill up with Holiday's 91 Non-Oxy - should I use that or go with the 91 that has 10% ethanol in it?

(Perk of using the non-oxy, I don't have crickets )

I would rather stick to shell v-power or chevron techron even with 10% ethanol. Cricket is just noise that does nothing harm.

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[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

So what you're saying - there's a chance my motor might be fine, and that the quality of the gas I got (used the station outside of the track) might be to blame for the power loss?

I slept at a Holiday Inn this month, so IMHO you are fine. You just got some bad gas and the ECU did it's thing.

I usually run 91, but we have 94 here and I always fill up with 94 for at least one tank before I go to the track.

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

After your current issue, and a decent suspicion of a gas problem. I would personally run a tank of the highest octane possible.


Like going out of the way to find something with over 93.


http://www.bradysservice.com/about/gas-station.aspx


There you go? Quick googling.... IDK.

Perfect. I can try that. I have maybe 1/2 tank of the track station gas left. Maybe i'll put in 97 and even it out?

Or i could just drive this tank low and fill up with my normal 91, since that's where my power was made before.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

Perfect. I can try that. I have maybe 1/2 tank of the track station gas left. Maybe i'll put in 97 and even it out?

Or i could just drive this tank low and fill up with my normal 91, since that's where my power was made before.

Personally, if it were me. I'd fill up with that 102 or 97 a few times until you figure out if it was truly a gas related issue or not. Then, I'd try and keep filling up with higher octane (93+). You have a high compression vehicle with boost.... filling it with the minimum octane suggested is not doing the motor any favors.


With my own previous vehicles. I have always gotten tuned on the "worst case scenario" gas and then tried to always make sure what I really filled it with was better since it seemed to give an added safety margin. IE tuned on 91, made sure to actually drive on 93.

[Gopherboy6956]

So - I'll go fill up after work (I went home at lunch and got the car, and DAMN is it sluggish lol) And we'll see what happens. Do you think fuel alone could be responsible for a 50-60hp pull in power?

Is there ever any issue with putting a higher octane fuel in a car?

I wonder if the fuel was like, a solid 87 or something (they had 87, 88, 91 at that particular pump).

We will see later today when I put whatever the max unleaded they have in it.

[Yanbags]

In your logs - look at your Advance Multiplier. If this parameter is identical to the Dynamic Advance Multiplier (DAM) I know of for STIs via the COBB Accessport - the car is cutting timing by 40%. You want this multiplier to be at 1. It's probably registering lots of knock (crappy gas is usually a culprit) and the ECU is pulling timing to save the motor. Boosted and in a high-heat track setting - this is more of an issue and if the gas was not great, it makes sense for the ECU to do this. It should re-learn its way back to 1 eventually.

One way to test - if you reset the ECU, that multiplier should jump back up to 1 and you'd have full power.

Edit - to answer your other question - it's never an issue with putting higher octane than the car is tuned for. With a good tune, it won't provide much benefit besides being more expensive, but on track, it's sometimes recommended for the extra knock protection.

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

After your current issue, and a decent suspicion of a gas problem. I would personally run a tank of the highest octane possible.


Like going out of the way to find something with over 93.


http://www.bradysservice.com/about/gas-station.aspx


There you go? Quick googling.... IDK.

Originally Posted by Yanbags

In your logs - look at your Advance Multiplier. If this parameter is identical to the Dynamic Advance Multiplier (DAM) I know of for STIs via the COBB Accessport - the car is cutting timing by 40%. You want this multiplier to be at 1. It's probably registering lots of knock (crappy gas is usually a culprit) and the ECU is pulling timing to save the motor. Boosted and in a high-heat track setting - this is more of an issue and if the gas was not great, it makes sense for the ECU to do this. It should re-learn its way back to 1 eventually.

One way to test - if you reset the ECU, that multiplier should jump back up to 1 and you'd have full power.

Edit - to answer your other question - it's never an issue with putting higher octane than the car is tuned for. With a good tune, it won't provide much benefit besides being more expensive, but on track, it's sometimes recommended for the extra knock protection.

So just going and putting in higher octane gas right now won't immediately restore power if it was a gas issue? When you say Reset the ECU, you mean just re-flash my tune?

[Yanbags]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

So just going and putting in higher octane gas right now won't immediately restore power if it was a gas issue? When you say Reset the ECU, you mean just re-flash my tune?

Not immediately, it would happen over time. A battery pull for a few mins should reset it. A re-flash would accomplish the same though as well (if it's faster).

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by Yanbags

Not immediately, it would happen over time. A battery pull for a few mins should reset it. A re-flash would accomplish the same though as well (if it's faster).

Got it. So what i'll do is Get the higher octane gas, drive home, do a quick log, then re-flash the Ecu, and go do another log. Then, if things look good when i compare logs, i'll put it back on the dyno and see if i'm back to my 251 whp.

[Yanbags]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

Got it. So what i'll do is Get the higher octane gas, drive home, do a quick log, then re-flash the Ecu, and go do another log. Then, if things look good when i compare logs, i'll put it back on the dyno and see if i'm back to my 251 whp.

Correct! That's a good plan IMO. For timing being pulled that much - you should definitely feel it on the butt dyno pretty after re-flashing.

[Gopherboy6956]

@moto-mike Thoughts?

[Gopherboy6956]

Situation Update. I went an threw $65 worth of 97 octane in it, which mixed with my 1/4 tank or so of the shit gas. I ran the car for a minute or so, then I re-flashed the tune.
Still felt shitty, but a few more minutes into driving, it really started to perk up. So, we stopped and re-flashed it again to reset now that we knew the new fuel had made it to the engine. Started doing a bunch of driving, logging, things seems to feel much much better.

The logs would always start with 1 for IAM, but usually slide to .9x or so. Now that things felt better, I wanted to reflash the car one more time with an updated Log @moto-mike had done when I was at the track, which I hadn't yet loaded as I wanted to diagnose the problems.

After that, I logged for about 25 minutes on my way home from all this playing around. A Healthy mix of WoT pulls, normal street driving, stop and go in some parts, etc.

I get home and i check the log and this is my min/max (Below) Where I still see the IAM slipping. It sat at .96 for 17 minutes, then began to fall. Over the next 8 minutes it very gradually declined to .88

Now, I expect some changes over the first 30 minutes of flashing as the ECU learns again, but are these numbers normal? I don't have a ton of "normal logs" since I usually took them after flashing the ECU?

Thoughts? Could I still have a hardware problem?

Thank you in advance.

Log Min/Max


Log Graph (over 25 minutes) Here's the direct link to the graph where you can zoom in more as well: https://s26.postimg.org/w2ycnswq1/graph.png