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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 01-03-2025, 10:41 AM   #127
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YTo get into the game now is at least a $50k investment and that's just to get the bottom level equipment to do all this, not be competitive.
Admittedly, I'm no expert or have much knowledge on SCCA, but is there not a stock class where you basically run it like it just came off the showroom floor?

I know a lot of folks are into heavily tuning their cars but there's also a lot of fun in just running them as they are.
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Old 01-03-2025, 11:00 AM   #128
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Admittedly, I'm no expert or have much knowledge on SCCA, but is there not a stock class where you basically run it like it just came off the showroom floor?

I know a lot of folks are into heavily tuning their cars but there's also a lot of fun in just running them as they are.
Showroom Stock class exists for autocross, which can be fairly cheap. You just need to buy whichever one or two cars has the best ruleset for that year, and then drop an additional 4-6K on mods that are allowed in "stock" class.

You can get into Time Trials, and many racing orgs which do time trials have "stock" classes, but even the stock classes aren't actually "rolled off the showroom floor".

As someone who has done affordable wheel-to-wheel, there isn't really an affordable way to get into competitive wheel-to-wheel racing. I built a Spec Miata as cheaply as possible, the only work I paid to have done was the roll cage, and I still spent around 40K. Just to run, absolutely not competitive. It would have been another 25K to have a competitive car, not to mention the cost to get the seat time to DRIVE competive.

Unless you consider 24 Hours of Lemons "competitive wheel-to-wheel" racing.
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Old 01-03-2025, 11:13 AM   #129
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Admittedly, I'm no expert or have much knowledge on SCCA, but is there not a stock class where you basically run it like it just came off the showroom floor?

I know a lot of folks are into heavily tuning their cars but there's also a lot of fun in just running them as they are.
Well, that's the catch. There are spec classes that have you run the car at nearly "stock". However, safety is still a very big deal so that means that you need a cage, fire suppression, fire suit and accessories and be able to maintain a "stock" car. Even this isn't a small amount of money. Classes like B-Spec (Mazda 2, Honda Fit, Mini Cooper) are low end on the cost scale but when you consider the rest that goes with it then it's still a big investment.

Old school classes are probably better from a cost standpoint because you can get a cheaper, older car like a Civic or Integra which typically have a lower acquisition price and then go from there. However, it all really adds up.

I know this sounds like a joke but hauling your car to a race on an open trailer behind your beat down SUV is certainly possible but it leaves you without the ability to have spare tires, tools, and other gear that you would probably need for a race weekend. Plus, you look like a peasant to the other drivers.
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Old 01-03-2025, 11:59 AM   #130
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Thanks @RT-BRZ and @series.trackday, that certainly clears it up for me.

Guess I won't be getting into that any time. I understand the safety equipment need, but I also don't want to own a race car, I would just want to use the ability of the car I already own.
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Old 01-03-2025, 12:11 PM   #131
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Thanks @RT-BRZ and @series.trackday, that certainly clears it up for me.

Guess I won't be getting into that any time. I understand the safety equipment need, but I also don't want to own a race car, I would just want to use the ability of the car I already own.
You can do HPDE without it being competitive. Great fun and you can really use the full capability of your car.

Some organizations also offer TrackCross, which is "AutoCross on Tracks".
Here is a short video of me doing a TrackCross session, on winter tires, with no prep. It cost me a $40 rego fee and an oil change afterwards. No mods on the car.

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Old 01-03-2025, 01:11 PM   #132
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Thanks @RT-BRZ and @series.trackday, that certainly clears it up for me.

Guess I won't be getting into that any time. I understand the safety equipment need, but I also don't want to own a race car, I would just want to use the ability of the car I already own.
As was already said, I think that things like Track Events/HPDE/PDX events and even Time Trials are the sweet spot for most of us. Autocross is also well worth it if you like to have fun on the cheap but still have a safe-ish environment. All of those things don't have such a steep entry point but are still a lot of fun.

Personally, I enjoy doing things to my car. I don't mind spending the money that's within the budget I have so I can mod the car and drive it at all those things above. W2W is just a bridge too far. I would consider something like Chump Car or Lemons if I had friends to join me as well. Beyond that is just too much.

The hard reality for any wanna be race car drivers is that you have to get to the upper echelon before you could be "paid" to drive. Below that is exponentially more money poured in than you could ever hope to get out. Buying a race car is an easy way to turn a lot of money into very little.
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Old 01-03-2025, 03:01 PM   #133
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I quickly realized that if I was going to pursue w2w, it would have to be with a kart. Once again my 6'5" body gets in the way.
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Old 01-03-2025, 10:54 PM   #134
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You can do HPDE without it being competitive. Great fun and you can really use the full capability of your car.

Some organizations also offer TrackCross, which is "AutoCross on Tracks".
Here is a short video of me doing a TrackCross session, on winter tires, with no prep. It cost me a $40 rego fee and an oil change afterwards. No mods on the car.
TrackCross is a great suggestion if you have a track local to you that does it. I recently started running the TrackCross/Refrigerator Bowl series at Summit Point and have been having a blast with it. Its definitely some of the cheapest fun you can have at the road course.

Entry fees without work assignment are around $200 plus an extra $20 if you want to run some paced laps during the lunch break. Its awesome just being able to show up, turn some timed laps and head home without having to do any prep or worry about swapping pads/tires. I've done other forms of racing that are more fun, but I don't think there are many easier ways to get your feet wet.
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Old 01-03-2025, 11:33 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Admittedly, I'm no expert or have much knowledge on SCCA, but is there not a stock class where you basically run it like it just came off the showroom floor?

I know a lot of folks are into heavily tuning their cars but there's also a lot of fun in just running them as they are.
SCCA T4 like rice_classic run is close to that. They are allowed to change exhaust, twins have spec sways and springs that must be run(Eibach) and limited to single adjustable suspension, and stock sized wheels. Pretty much it besides safety stuff which is a huge cost. Oh and in intake restricter.

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Showroom Stock class exists for autocross, which can be fairly cheap. You just need to buy whichever one or two cars has the best ruleset for that year, and then drop an additional 4-6K on mods tha
You can get into Time Trials, and many racing orgs which do time trials have "stock" classes, but even the stock classes aren't actually "rolled off the showroom floor".

As someone who has done affordable wheel-to-wheel, there isn't really an affordable way to get into competitive wheel-to-wheel racing. I built a Spec Miata as cheaply as possible, the only work I paid to have done was the roll cage, and I still spent around 40K. Just to run, absolutely not competitive. It would have been another 25K to have a competitive car, not to mention the cost to get the seat time to DRIVE competive.

Unless you consider 24 Hours of Lemons "competitive wheel-to-wheel" racing.
TT was a great gateway and to scratch that itch. But none of the TT/TA orgs can seem to coordinate so their rules even closely match, it seems they are bent on making them more and more different from each other. SCCA doesn’t have TT events in my area anymore(despite the director of the national TT program living in the PNW now). On top of them making a mess out of the Max classing with the proposed new rules. My car is built pervious SCCA max 4 rules. But to run GTA I have to go to 220TW tires and pull my diffuser to run enthusiast, but then with OnGrid they allow 100TW tires for a class with my similar build. I don’t care to be competitive but I also don’t want to be a rolling chicane and ruin other people’s experience running my car in a class it is just way too outgunned for like GTA street. It’s a subject I have been quite annoyed with after trying to get involved in a couple ways in my area.
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Old 01-05-2025, 10:30 AM   #136
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SCCA T4 like rice_classic run is close to that. They are allowed to change exhaust, twins have spec sways and springs that must be run(Eibach) and limited to single adjustable suspension, and stock sized wheels. Pretty much it besides safety stuff which is a huge cost. Oh and in intake restricter....
So, really not like that at all then.
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Old 01-05-2025, 10:55 AM   #137
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So, really not like that at all then.
No, probably not. SCCA safety level 3 is pretty extensive. I think a twin in T4 would be awesome but the competition in T4 is pretty stiff from what I've seen so the investment would be pretty stiff to be close to anyone. As much as I would love to get a T4 BRZ, it's probably the wrong level to start at for SCCA.

From the sounds of things, B-Spec, CSM or maybe CSX might be the right places to start but I don't fit in CSX, I hate B-Spec cars and I'm not a huge fan of a stick axle S197 Mustang so none of those are very enticing either.

However, it doesn't matter. The investment into the cage alone is a lot of money.
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Old 01-05-2025, 01:18 PM   #138
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However, it doesn't matter. The investment into the cage alone is a lot of money.
Depending on the area of the country you live in, you may be able to find a "cheap" cagebuilder who'll do a spec-compliant cage for $2500-3000. Or you can get a multi-series compliant cage by a very reputable builder and only be out $7000.
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Old 01-05-2025, 04:44 PM   #139
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Depending on the area of the country you live in, you may be able to find a "cheap" cagebuilder who'll do a spec-compliant cage for $2500-3000. Or you can get a multi-series compliant cage by a very reputable builder and only be out $7000.
I don't disagree or doubt you at all. The thing is that it's a fairly big ticket item that adds up along with everything else. Finding the "deal" on these things isn't something you can really budget for unless you're already in the circles of people that know where to get them. For the average Joe, they aren't as readily available.

It's not that doing any of this is wrong but it's a lot of investment and that seems to be the real topic of conversation.
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Old 01-06-2025, 09:46 AM   #140
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I don't disagree or doubt you at all. The thing is that it's a fairly big ticket item that adds up along with everything else. Finding the "deal" on these things isn't something you can really budget for unless you're already in the circles of people that know where to get them. For the average Joe, they aren't as readily available.

It's not that doing any of this is wrong but it's a lot of investment and that seems to be the real topic of conversation.
Sorry, my comment wasn't meant to prove the point that it's cheap, but rather to point out that even the "cheap" version isn't cheap.


And, after you install the roll cage, you need a fire suppression system, a full-vehicle electrical cutoff (interior and exterior-accessible), a race seat, belts, restraints, etc. You're looking at 4K minimum.

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