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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86 |
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#29 | |
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Best go grab one people, those numbers will make them rare gems soon, and halt production because it no longer pays the bills of a factory. |
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#30 | ||
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In 2007 when the Prius was released, what sporty car did Toyota have in the lineup? People were upset because they had made so many great enthusiast cars in the past and then stopped. Quote:
A car like the E30 M3, with a massive racing pedigree, took decades to become as valuable as they are now. And this is a car that only 5-6k were imported between 1988-1991. Not a car produced by the literal tens of thousands.
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#31 | |
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#32 | |
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They aren't low numbers. Toyota sold twice the number of GR's in 2022 than Nissan has sold GT-R's since they were released in 2007. They're cheap, fun sports cars. They aren't anything special and the production numbers are so high, maybe they will be worth more than MSRP in 30 years? I love when you guys get wound up over nothing. Smoke a joint, have a drink, take a Xanax and stop taking this stuff so seriously. None of us are getting out alive.
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#33 | |
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If you buy one new, store it away without putting miles on it, maintain it regularly, in a climate controlled critter fee environment, and in general throw money at it then in 30 years you may get MSRP fo it. When you factor in 30 years worth of inflation, storage and maintenance costs that means you will lose your shirt on the deal. Your only hope is that it stars in an action movie about street racers that hijack trucks and that will force the value way up as every kid that has never actually driven one will pay top dollar because it is the greatest car ever made! At this point in history discussing the collectability of ICE cars in 30 years is pretty much a moot point anyway. In 30 years from now your 2023 GR86 that you stored away will probably be allowed to run on certain roads on holidays and weekends and the gas you have to buy from the specialty shop in your city will be $100 a gallon. The days of "I wanted a 68 Chevelle SS back when they were new and I was a teenager that couldn't afford it and now am a rich 70 year old so I am going to buy one are over.
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#34 |
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I think there's a fairly good chance that alternate fuels will exist in 10-20 years that are fairly easy to convert old gasoline engines to.
Hydrogen, for example, isn't terribly complicated to implement in a modern motor. (By no means practical today, but it's feasible it will get easier down the road.) And then there's things like Porsche's new solar fuel generators that may or may not be practical as-is, but are at least a strong contender for "green" ICE fuel with additional innovation. They make a bolt-in kit for old muscle cars that converts a Tesla electric motor to bolt right up to a V8's motor mounts. Certainly not the noise I want coming out of a Chevelle, but I think the sheer power will satisfy a lot of people. And you'd have plenty of extra space under the hood for a loudspeaker playing dynamic motor noises if you really want to have that noise. (I think it'd be weird, but I can guarantee you someone's going to do that if they haven't already.) Basically what I'm saying is that I doubt the human race and the car enthusiast culture specifically will fail to solve the problem of how to keep our beloved flammable-fuel vehicles on the road. And there's also the whole problem of solving how to keep 100% of the cars on the road charged with a power grid wholly inadequate to do so. Until that's solved we NEED internal combustion to hang around. |
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#35 | |
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(That's the internal speaker version, but I'm sure an external version will follow. ![]()
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#36 | |
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A retrofitted electric, hydrogen, or unicorn dust powered 86 is just going to be a car that is not an 86 any more than a Tesla powered Chevelle SS is a Chevelle SS. You just have cars that look like what they were. Waxing a bit philosophical here I know
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#37 | |
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Other alternative fuels may solve the CO2 part of the equation by being produced sustainably, but they cannot solve the local pollution issue. An ICE creates nocive byproducts as it doesn't burn pure octane with pure oxygen. The air the motor breathes contains other elements that react in the engine, and so does the fuel it burns. Synthetic fuels don't solve that, or at least not completely. It's likely most petrolheads will switch to EV when the time comes. And the last remaining dinosaurs will keep driving their ICEs using dino juice or ethanol, probably purchased at a high price from a greatly scaled-down fuel supply chain. As far as the grid, it's not a fixed part of the equation. It can grow, it can be made smarter, and it can be relieved in some areas (for example, better housing insulation creates electrical capacity for BEVs). Not saying EVs will solve EVERYTHING, but they're here to stay. The sustainable fuel argument is used by enthusiasts as a joker of some sorts, but there likely ain't much to it. Especially if you can't afford to pay $10, 20 or 30/gal. Last edited by alex87f; 01-10-2023 at 03:51 PM. |
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#38 | ||
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And it sounds acceptable too:
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#39 | |
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They do work, as BMW proved some years ago. But being made into reliable, cost efficient and marketable products is not something we’ve seen yet. Then there’s the whole question of their efficiency compared to a fuel cell. ICEs are inherently limited by the (second?) law of thermodynamics. While fuel cells aren’t. How many people are going to buy the noisy, inefficient and complex powertrain, especially when it uses twice as much of an expensive fuel (equivalent to around $15/ga)? |
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#40 |
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Sorry for my rude comment, I was out of line. I gather I just have too much adoration for these cars and it's given me some significantly rosy glasses. Tcoat lays out a good example of keeping one preserved, not a trivial process to pull off for decades.
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#41 | |
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The GR86/BRZ is made in too large of numbers to be rare, but is inexpensive enough that irresponsibility is more likely. If someone drops a quarter-million on a car it's safe to say they get the oil changed and drive it like it matters if they stay rubber-side down. Not all of them, of course, but a much higher percent. Our cars get driven hard, often by people who shouldn't and in places they shouldn't. In 30 years a pristine '22 could be rare. And of course that alone doesn't make it valuable. On a global scale my toenail clippings are incredibly rare, but no one's lining up to buy them. Factor in the cost of keeping a car in good condition or restoring it to that condition, inflation, etc... realistically the best you can really hope for is to break even. Cars just aren't good investments if the goal is to make money. As far as the rest goes - yes, no one has solve the problem of perfect, affordable, reliable hydrogen conversion. That's kind of the point of what I'm saying - it's future stuff. If it were already solved it wouldn't be. I think it's highly unlikely that there won't be at LEAST one option that keeps ICE cars on the road with minimal-to-no modification to run on something else. (The green-gas made by using solar power to build gasoline out of CO2 and water is pretty cool.) |
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