daily driver alignment specs

[toast]

I have RCE SS1 on my car and in my enthusiasm went to get a performance alignment. I have -1.7 degrees of camber with zero toe. On my summer tires this is freaking amazing. My winter tires are not having it, I've worn the inner tread blocks down in three months.

Question is, which one is causing it? Normally you want a little toe in for the front so that under load when the car is moving forward you basically have zero , correct? Is this too much camber (doesn't seem like it should be)?

[HaXx]

subd, i just got an alignment on winters with -2* all around, 0 toe. hope my winters arent done in 3 months, id be sad

[Racecomp Engineering]

I think something else is up. -1.7 is not a lot and especially not with 0 toe. Or your alignment has shifted. How are your rear tires?

I've had 3 winters on my blizzaks, 2 of which I had more than -2 degrees of camber. They've worn evenly.

- Andrew

[toast]

Rear tires look normal.

Not having a little toe-in won't hurt anything?

I did find that the three nuts on the top of the coilovers where they mount in the tower were all loose on one side but that shouldn't change toe. Never had any other issues before installing the coilovers (and never had an alignment since the day I bought it even after switching out springs a couple times).

[N_Raged]

Winter tires need less camber in order to make full even contact with the ground because there is less lateral load in slow snow driving. I would keep winter alignment as close to factory as possible, meaning less than -1* camber.

Good reference:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25001

[Tcoat]

Because I am on lowering springs but no other adjustments I am around -2 front and back. On my 5th winter with the snows and no sign of abnormal wear.

[solidONE]

I've had similar front tire wear problem for the life of this car. My car is a first year model. Also I live in california. "Winter Tires" are PSS4+ lol. I recently removed the fronts due to inner shoulder wear in the front.

My car for the past 3 years or more have been on various factory BRZ/FRS dampers and springs. Camber -2f/-1.5r with 0 to small amount of toe.

I'm guessing dynamically during cornering my inside front tire is dragging during cornering? Maybe inner front tires is toeing out during cornering causing the inner tread blocks on the font tire to wear more? I'm just guessing here. Or maybe it's my driving style? Too much trail braking?

When I see people on the form posting that they run more than -3 degrees camber and claim to have even tire wear on the street... how?!?

[Racecomp Engineering]

How many miles on your cars? OEM front control arm bushings?

- Andrew

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by toast

Rear tires look normal.

Not having a little toe-in won't hurt anything?

I did find that the three nuts on the top of the coilovers where they mount in the tower were all loose on one side but that shouldn't change toe. Never had any other issues before installing the coilovers (and never had an alignment since the day I bought it even after switching out springs a couple times).

Did it shift? Camber will change toe a bit. Not that much in the front compared to the rear but it does have some effect.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by toast

Rear tires look normal.

Not having a little toe-in won't hurt anything?

I did find that the three nuts on the top of the coilovers where they mount in the tower were all loose on one side but that shouldn't change toe. Never had any other issues before installing the coilovers (and never had an alignment since the day I bought it even after switching out springs a couple times).

Depending on your car usage settings vary a lot.
But generally for a sporty street/canyon run/ daily with rare weekend warrior setup on a RWD car. 0” to 1/16” total toe out front (not in), and 1/16”-1/8” total toe in rear. Then 1.8-2.0 camber front and 1.3-1.6 camber rear. Is a good balanced setup for solid straight line stability, good turn in, power turn out, and normalish wear. Obviously you make some compromises being in a “middle” setup.

With RCE yellows, camber bolts, and spc rear arm. I was 1.8 camber, zero toe front. And 1.6 camber 1/16” toe in rear. I wanted 1.4 camber rear but toe adjustment was maxed. Still handles and performs phenomenally for a DD. After it was done the guy at the shop said, “Well your setup is too aggressive for the street and not aggressive enough for the track”. I said “perfect!”

[toast]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

How many miles on your cars? OEM front control arm bushings?

- Andrew

Entirely possible, 73k. But it wasn't an issue until the coilovers and alignment.

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by solidONE

When I see people on the form posting that they run more than -3 degrees camber and claim to have even tire wear on the street... how?!?

I'm running -3.2F/-2.2R with 0 toe in the front, and just a bit in in the rear, and a lot of caster (8 degrees). I have very even tire wear on the street just rotating my tires normally at each oil change. My alignment isn't really intended for street use, but my car has lately gotten a lot of street miles without any issues.



I am wondering if your bushings are tired and it is causing a shift in your alignment under load? You've got more than double the miles on your car that I do and I had already replaced my bushings once (mostly for performance, but also because some were already starting to wear due to hard driving). Should definitely check them.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I think something else is up. -1.7 is not a lot and especially not with 0 toe. Or your alignment has shifted. How are your rear tires?

I've had 3 winters on my blizzaks, 2 of which I had more than -2 degrees of camber. They've worn evenly.

- Andrew

I've had > -2.5* for the whole life of my current snows, and not seeing any uneven wear at all. My summers get a little sharp wedge on the inside with too much highway driving though. Currently running -3.2F/-2.5R, 0 toe front, 1/16" total rear toe in.

Originally Posted by N_Raged

Winter tires need less camber in order to make full even contact with the ground because there is less lateral load in slow snow driving. I would keep winter alignment as close to factory as possible, meaning less than -1* camber.

Good reference:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25001

Snows are actually more likely to make full contact with more camber because of the softer sidewalls. You're right that there's less body motion at slower speeds, but just driving straight the snows flex more and will definitely have the tread flatter than a high performance summer tire on the same alignment.

[N_Raged]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Snows are actually more likely to make full contact with more camber because of the softer sidewalls. You're right that there's less body motion at slower speeds, but just driving straight the snows flex more and will definitely have the tread flatter than a high performance summer tire on the same alignment.

Yes and it depends on a few things like weight distribution and tire pressure.

My 2019 BRZ still with its factory alignment, the outer shoulder of the rear tires makes less contact with the ground than the rest of the tire (Michelin Xi3). I can tell by how much road dust sticks to the tire tread, and how little wear there is on the outer shoulder. And this is with stock rim, stock tire size, stock tire pressure (35PSI), stock suspension; car has only 7000km.

The front tires however have virtually zero camber from the factory and they have an engine hanging over them so yes there is a lot of sidewall flex, resulting in even tread to ground contact more often.