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Old 02-18-2020, 01:55 PM   #15
Muskoka800
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They were talking about the new plates on "Derringer in the Morning" today.
Some observations being that from two car lengths away you cannot read the letters/numbers.
Will be tough for the police to read.
And what about photo radar and stop-light cameras?
And will the 407 cameras be able to pick-up the plate number? Might be time to lose the transponder and update to the new plates.
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Muskoka800 View Post
They were talking about the new plates on "Derringer in the Morning" today.
Some observations being that from two car lengths away you cannot read the letters/numbers.
Will be tough for the police to read.
And what about photo radar and stop-light cameras?
And will the 407 cameras be able to pick-up the plate number? Might be time to lose the transponder and update to the new plates.

[ame]https://twitter.com/SgtKoopman/status/1228867523921272833[/ame]


Ford claims they consulted with law enforcement, but I'll bet they never show any proof of that and no one steps up to say they were consulted with and ok'd it.
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:48 PM   #17
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I saw my first one this morning. I noticed it right away since it stood out very well in my headlights. I could read it equally well from about 50 meters as I could in the Tim Hortons drive through I followed them through. Zero issues reading it at any point. As the video in the cop's twitter shows, reading and seeing it with the naked eye is not really the issue. The problem is the reflective agent on the numbers/letters changes colour from white to a dark grey through a camera lens. May be a problem for the different traffic cameras but the cops shouldn't have any issue seeing them.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:33 AM   #18
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I saw my first one this morning. I noticed it right away since it stood out very well in my headlights. I could read it equally well from about 50 meters as I could in the Tim Hortons drive through I followed them through. Zero issues reading it at any point. As the video in the cop's twitter shows, reading and seeing it with the naked eye is not really the issue. The problem is the reflective agent on the numbers/letters changes colour from white to a dark grey through a camera lens. May be a problem for the different traffic cameras but the cops shouldn't have any issue seeing them.
Reading them in daylight is one thing but night time they were pretty difficult to quickly glance and read. CTV news did a segment from multiple angles and compared against the old one. The new ones are unviewable. While one might argue that "videos" or "photos" aren't the primary design category to be viewed on, given the proliferation of cell phone cameras, the design should have them in mind as they are our best bet to positively identify a plate.

I haven't encountered one on my dash cam at night so I don't have footage... yet.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:59 AM   #19
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Reading them in daylight is one thing but night time they were pretty difficult to quickly glance and read. CTV news did a segment from multiple angles and compared against the old one. The new ones are unviewable. While one might argue that "videos" or "photos" aren't the primary design category to be viewed on, given the proliferation of cell phone cameras, the design should have them in mind as they are our best bet to positively identify a plate.

I haven't encountered one on my dash cam at night so I don't have footage... yet.
When I say "morning" I mean 5am. It was still very dark. I found it easy to read. Could be the type of lights used I suppose. The old plates are not all that easy to read after a year or so really so other than the camera debacle (I agree they should show up on a camera) I just don't see the big fuss.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:03 PM   #20
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When I say "morning" I mean 5am. It was still very dark. I found it easy to read. Could be the type of lights used I suppose. The old plates are not all that easy to read after a year or so really so other than the camera debacle (I agree they should show up on a camera) I just don't see the big fuss.
Both my cars have the old plates and they're still highly legible. If you're referring to the damaged ones, I highly suspect people are purposely ignoring the care required to keep them alive. My S2000's plate has survived for four years and I've been known to track with it on lol.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:11 PM   #21
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Both my cars have the old plates and they're still highly legible. If you're referring to the damaged ones, I highly suspect people are purposely ignoring the care required to keep them alive. My S2000's plate has survived for four years and I've been known to track with it on lol.
The vast majority of car owners don't do much to maintain their car much less their plates!
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:39 PM   #22
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Maybe there's some inconsistency to the new plates because I've seen some (both in daylight and at night) which you can't read unless you're on top of them (the distance you could read the old ones that had the paint already peeled off so all you're reading is the dirt and shadows of the embossment) while others are fairly easy to read in the day. I don't think I've seen one that reflected my headlights like they're supposed to though.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
< snip >
If you're referring to the damaged ones, I highly suspect people are purposely ignoring the care required to keep them alive.
< snip >
What "care" are you referring to? I suspect that you do not understand the issue. The vinyl coating does not adhere to the aluminum plate. Over time it will tear and peel off. How can owners be "purposely ignoring" something that they have no control over. It's a manufacturing flaw that the government made owners responsible for. My wife has been nursing her plates for over ten years by encasing them in clear plastic covers. Which, by the way, is illegal.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:10 PM   #24
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What "care" are you referring to? I suspect that you do not understand the issue. The vinyl coating does not adhere to the aluminum plate. Over time it will tear and peel off. How can owners be "purposely ignoring" something that they have no control over. It's a manufacturing flaw that the government made owners responsible for. My wife has been nursing her plates for over ten years by encasing them in clear plastic covers. Which, by the way, is illegal.
Clear covers are not illegal. Please quote the highway traffic act which says this is so.

The act states the following in section 12 (SAUCE: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK40):

"Violations as to number plates
12 (1) Every person who,

(a) defaces or alters any number plate, evidence of validation or permit;

(b) uses or permits the use of a defaced or altered number plate, evidence of validation or permit;

(c) without the authority of the permit holder, removes a number plate from a motor vehicle or trailer; and

(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;

(e) uses or permits the use of evidence of validation upon a number plate displayed on a motor vehicle other than evidence of validation furnished by the Ministry in respect of that motor vehicle; or

(f) uses or permits the use of a number plate or evidence of validation other than in accordance with this Act and the regulations,

is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the person’s licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1)."


Regarding specifically obstruction, this is covered in Section 13:

"Number plates, further violations
No other numbers to be exposed
13 (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).

Number plate to be kept clean
(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).

Obstruction prohibited
(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using an automated speed enforcement system. 2017, c. 9, s. 3.

Same
(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).

Same
(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).

Offence
(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).
"

It doesn't say covers are illegal - only those that "prevents the entire number pates including the numbers from being accurately photographed". Clear, non-super reflective ones are perfectly acceptable. The MOT that issued my plates in fact was selling clear covers.

The vinyl that holds the coloring can eventually come off like anything else but in my 25 years of driving with 5+ plates, I don't understand how people so badly abuse their plates whereas my 1 incident came as a result of someone with an unsecured load shearing it off my car. I'm genuinely curious how other people have damaged theirs so much.

I know the rev 2 of the old white+blue ones weren't as good quality but I've seen lots of original white+blue ones that have been abused as hell.

Really wanna go what people are driving through.

EDIT: Also, you do realize the plates belong to the province and under driving law enacted by the Province and agreed upon by you, you are to take care of said property right?
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:29 PM   #25
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At least they finally acknowledged their screw up.
https://www.cp24.com/news/premier-s-...ssue-1.4818433
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:38 PM   #26
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At least they finally acknowledged their screw up.
https://www.cp24.com/news/premier-s-...ssue-1.4818433
I bet you they made a few phone calls and demanded who approved this design and all the suppliers said... "You did?". And then all the approving parties were like: "Uh, I didn't get any approval requests?".

Province is suddenly looking at MOT and MOT is like "oops, forgot to CC".
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:31 PM   #27
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Love the steadfast defense of the plates and straight out statements like, "They're very readable." When anyone can see they are not at all (also; the word should be 'legible' should it not?).

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Old 02-20-2020, 02:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Clear covers are not illegal. Please quote the highway traffic act which says this is so.

< snip >

Regarding specifically obstruction, this is covered in Section 13:

"Number plates, further violations
No other numbers to be exposed
13 (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).

Number plate to be kept clean
(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).

Obstruction prohibited
(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using an automated speed enforcement system. 2017, c. 9, s. 3.

Same
(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).

Same
(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).

Offence
(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).
"

It doesn't say covers are illegal - only those that "prevents the entire number pates including the numbers from being accurately photographed". Clear, non-super reflective ones are perfectly acceptable. The MOT that issued my plates in fact was selling clear covers.

The vinyl that holds the coloring can eventually come off like anything else but in my 25 years of driving with 5+ plates, I don't understand how people so badly abuse their plates whereas my 1 incident came as a result of someone with an unsecured load shearing it off my car. I'm genuinely curious how other people have damaged theirs so much.

I know the rev 2 of the old white+blue ones weren't as good quality but I've seen lots of original white+blue ones that have been abused as hell.

Really wanna go what people are driving through.

EDIT: Also, you do realize the plates belong to the province and under driving law enacted by the Province and agreed upon by you, you are to take care of said property right?


Oh, you’re one of those are you? Well, good luck defending yourself with the; “It’s not specified in the HTA” should you ever get a ticket.
Truth is you’ve spelled it out in your reply. The Highway Traffic Act clearly states several times that plate numbers must be clearly visible, not obstructed in anyway. As in, that every number plate shall be kept free from obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by any attachments to the vehicle. A plate cover is considered an attachment. Ask any cop!
As with all laws, it is up to law enforcement officers to exercise their judgment and apply the HTA accordingly. So, if a police officer decides that your numbers can’t be seen by other vehicles, for any reason including a clear plate cover, the officer is within their rights to ticket you.


"Clear, non-super reflective ones are perfectly acceptable. The MOT that issued my plates in fact was selling clear covers."
I don't now about your local Service Ontario centre but, when asked by The Globe and Mail if it advises people not to use plate covers a spokesperson for the MTO stated;
“The sale of licence-plate covers is not illegal. The ministry is aware that many retailers sell these items, however, the ministry does not endorse or promote the sale, purchase, or use of clear or tinted licence-plate covers.”


https://www.baytoday.ca/local-news/take-off-that-license-plate-cover-or-face-a-fine-say-opp-531056


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-why-was-i-ticketed-for-a-plastic-covering-over-a-licence-plate/
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