Is Openflash tablet detectable?

[Boofneenee]

First off, let me apologize for bringing some of us down this rabbit hole yet again but, I need to know. I have the Unichip and I enjoy it especially because of its zero foot print but I am starting to add more mods to my car and am looking for a more serious tune.

I have done some research and poked a few experts but have yet to find a concrete answer to my title question.

Can the dealer detect that I have tuned my car if I use the Openflash tablet?

Their is a counter but I understand it resets to zero if I simply reflash the stock rom. However, I was told the dealer can actually access the dates in which you flash the rom and this doesnt get flashed back to zero.

I want this piece but I am scared of my engine exploding and the dealer denying me my warranty because they can prove I tuned the engine. I know the engine is bullet proof but what if my engine had a defect to begin with.. I would be furious if I was denied repairs based on that.

Please.. before any of you tell me that I have to "pay to play" or "be a grown up, act like a man and take whats coming to you" I would prefer you just keep that type of comment to yourself.

Please advice

thanks
Josh

[Millions]

My understanding is that anything is detectable if they look hard enough. However, I also understand that if you flash back to the stock rom, it won't have a counter or date of flash. Even if there was a counter or date of flash, what proof would there be of altered ECU parameters?

[jamesm]

the common belief is that the dealer cannot detect that your car was ever flashed if you flash back on a stock rom prior to giving your car to them. that said, it's certainly not impossible to figure out if you want to bad enough, so it's conceivable that they could or may be able to in the future.

modifying your cars ecu in any way (even with your unichip) releases the manufacturer from the liability to fix whatever problem the modification can reasonably be believed to have caused (i.e. pretty much any drivetrain-related problem if they're assholes about it). the ability to take it off with 'no footprint' really just makes it easier to defraud them or try to avoid the hassle of arguing about it.

[RC51ed]

I guess the more serious question is what mods are you going to do that would void the warranty besides a tune?

Let's say you blow your engine because you had a turbo set up. I think the last thing you should worry about is the dealership checking your ecu the last date it was updated. A normal NA tune wouldn't blow your engine unless your revving way over the redline. Unless your tuner was to sabotage your map because you had a conflict with him.

That said, you would really have to make the dealership curious to make them check the last date the flash was done. IMO.

[Boofneenee]

i guess just like in any computer their leaves a trail. So if the people at the dealer had the knowledge to check for a tune the could. I think the question arises is exactly how could they detect a open flash rom tune? I know Shiv is cautious to say "the dealer is very unlikely" to be able to detect something was done versus "they can't detect a tune if you flash it to original". Having said that,.. I am still super curious as to how and why he us using the words "very unlikely". Their has to be some tuning, ecu computer experts in this forum that could give a method?

I am so tempted to make the change but so scared. RC51ed made a point that I really shouldnt worry about blowing up my engine with a openflash tune as long as I dont abuse and stay NA. Perhaps their is some real truth to that. However, imagine this horrible scenario.. let say your car had that .01% chance of being given some defective mechanical part.. boom something happens and its not even the fault of the tune but of a defective part. I am screwed!

I may just bite the bullet and make the change but I am still looking for a little more info. What if the dealer can't detect the reason at his shop? will he send the car out somewhere? Whats the next step?

[andrew20195]

From my post in the OFT Stage 1.2 thread:

Can you confirm that the OFT also correctly sets the Verification Number identical to stock when returning to the stock calibration? I know that's one way Subaru can tell if the ECM has been flashed if the CID and CVN don't match.

The ECM does not record number of flashes. At least not accessible at a dealer level. It does record mileage since DTC clear, time since DTC clear, and key cycles since reflash. So if the dealer has a reason to suspect the car was modified, they will probably look at those.

Still waiting on an answer to the first part.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

From my post in the OFT Stage 1.2 thread:

Still waiting on an answer to the first part.

I would like to know as well.. I am not criticizing this product at all. Everyone who gets it rav's about it and the dyno's don't lie. I am considering getting it myself. I just need to know what I am getting into in regards to a void warranty. What are the possibilities.

[Millions]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

I am so tempted to make the change but so scared. RC51ed made a point that I really shouldnt worry about blowing up my engine with a openflash tune as long as I dont abuse and stay NA. Perhaps their is some real truth to that. However, imagine this horrible scenario.. let say your car had that .01% chance of being given some defective mechanical part.. boom something happens and its not even the fault of the tune but of a defective part. I am screwed!

Just to answer this, if there's a defective part, the tune will have nothing to do with it according to the Magnuson-Moss Act. Read up on that.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Millions

Just to answer this, if there's a defective part, the tune will have nothing to do with it according to the Magnuson-Moss Act. Read up on that.

Yeah, good luck proving that to Subaru though.

[Boofneenee]

I am begining to realize that if I get this product my best strategy is to be best of friends with my Toyota dealership and mechanic manager. This means I am going to have to take my car to them for all my work. Perhaps building this relationship will save me of a warranty battle if something goes wrong with the engine. Maybe they wont dig further for evidence of a tune if they can't find much when I reflash the ROM.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Millions

Just to answer this, if there's a defective part, the tune will have nothing to do with it according to the Magnuson-Moss Act. Read up on that.

Yes but: Modifying the ECU operational parameters DEFINITELY falls into the caveat to the MM-act. If you change the engines operational parameters (Tune), then you open yourself up to ANY scrutiny that the manufacturer wants to throw at you. (And you would lose).

As for the counter that keeps track of the number of flashes.... It must be a unicorn (mythical beast) that supposedly exists somewhere, but no-one has found it yet.
If there IS such a counter, then doesnt it have to exist in non-volatile memory space, so could be overwritten?
In my experience, There are no write protected memory spaces that cannot be overwritten by enough software....

[Shiv@Openflash]

It's virtually impossible to prove that something does not exist. This is why some people still believe in the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot. In the realm of Subaru rom editing, I can only speak for 15 yrs of experienced and say that I have never heard of anyone running into trouble if the rom was flashes back to 100% stock. The only time I have seen issues is when the ecu is locked (overwrite protection) or when cal IDs are changes. And this from my experience with EJ20 turbo motors that aren't known for their long term durability.

With this platform, not only does the OFT allow you to revert all volatile memory data back to original (pre-tune) but we also have an engine that is essentially bulletproof with the absence of boost.

But if guarantees of diagnostic invisibility are needed, it's probably best to leave your car stock because it would be irresponsible of me to make any assurances despite me being as close to certain as I could be. At the end of the day, we focus on making a performance item, not a dealership deception item. Anyone who focusing on the latter either doesn't do the first bit too well or is praying on the fears of others IMHO.

[regal]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

With this platform, not only does the OFT allow you to revert all volatile memory data back to original (pre-tune) but we also have an engine that is essentially bulletproof with the absence of boost.

.

Do you really think the stock tune is bullet proof N/A ? Especially those of us with 2012 builds that can only get the 01C calibration fix with an aftermarket flash?

I've spoken with a few tuners who have seen some significant compromises made for emisions and the stock tune does have a knock sensor that sings in tip in and part throttle heavy load?

I guess I was hoping the OFT + your tunes would make the engine more "bullet proof" than the stock tune.

[RC51ed]

Originally Posted by regal

Do you really think the stock tune is bullet proof N/A ? Especially those of us with 2012 builds that can only get the 01C calibration fix with an aftermarket flash?

I've spoken with a few tuners who have seen some significant compromises made for emisions and the stock tune does have a knock sensor that sings in tip in and part throttle heavy load?

I guess I was hoping the OFT + your tunes would make the engine more "bullet proof" than the stock tune.

I think what shiv meant was bullet proof as in the detectable part when you take it to the dealer.

The tune part is solid in the tune perspective.