09-14-2021, 01:07 PM | #967 |
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not an antivaxxer, just using all the same talking points as one. got it, thanks, your order is ready at the next window.
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09-14-2021, 01:17 PM | #968 | |
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based on the studies it seems a part of the conclusion/reason for natural immunity being as good if not better was the duration immunity lasts, so someone who gets vaccinated would need to be in the same boat as needing booster shots / adequate testing etc... too. So natural immunity plus whatever testing and possible booster if necessary at some point, possibly routinely/annually booster. or Vaccine 1-2jab plus whatever testing and possible booster if necessary at some point, most likely routinely/annual booster. You would conclude those could be two possible reasonable alternatives to each other and an alternative scenario where vaccine wouldn't be required, at least not initial 2jab but maybe booster TBT? |
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09-14-2021, 01:19 PM | #969 |
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most likely 99% of the "antivaxxers" you are referencing are not actually antivaxxers if you read the ending of my post you should have gotten that. but thanks for proving my point.
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09-14-2021, 01:34 PM | #970 | |
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Your anecdotal accounts are in stark contrast with the data from the whole US. The rates of infections, hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated and vaccinated couldn't be more polar. The 2nd shot does have a large incidence of flu like symptoms for 12 hours followed by a recovery period. Your friends who had these strong reactions were having an immune reaction that is uncomfortable, but medically speaking, mild. It isn't an allergic reaction (moderate), anaphylaxis (severe) or death (fatal/absolute). Those reactions are extremely rare. Most will just have a sore arm from the shot. Anyone having a flu reaction should take note of the experience because it is a small sampling of what COVID would be like on the mild to moderate end of the spectrum. Frankly, I look forward to having a reaction because it means my body created immunity because there are a small percentage of people that don't develop immunity from a vaccine, and I don't want to be in that group.
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09-14-2021, 01:35 PM | #971 | |
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nope, yet again i will point out that you're making all of these arguments in bad faith and hedging your bets with that final statement in an effort to seem less extreme |
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09-14-2021, 01:41 PM | #972 |
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You are starting to sound like that, "I know you are but what am I" kid on the playground at recess.
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09-14-2021, 02:02 PM | #973 | |
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If the scientific community could make a predictable timeline or if the antibody testing was solid then I see no reason why such a plan would be a problem. I received my initial shot in January, and I will be available for the booster soon, and I believe they have said nine months is when immunity starts to go, so I am eager to get my booster. Vaccinated people are in the same boat of needing to comply with boosters if the evidence suggests immunity has waned. If the government decided to give the option then I think the option would be that vaccinated people need to stay on a vaccination/booster schedule without a need for antibody testing or be subject to the unvaccinated plan. The unvaccinated plan is to test for antibodies in whatever frequency they determine is sufficient, whether that is weekly, biweekly or monthly or whatever. If an antibody test shows waning levels or comes back negative then a vaccine/booster would be administered. I think if someone had a recent PCR test it could be possible to give them a period of time where they don't need to take an antibody test, but the problem is that some people can test positive for a PCR test for months, so it is more important to know when they were symptomatic, and that would require more than a PCR test; it would require a doctor's note or medical record indicating symptoms along with the PCR test. I could imagine this would be problematic, so I could imagine no waver of the antibody testing. I don't think we need to double down on PCR testing twice a week and antibody testing. Either someone doesn't have immunity, and they take the vaccine/booster, or they have natural immunity and are immune. The problem is determining if someone is truly immune from the antibody test. Some just say yes or no, but don't provide levels. Some provide levels, but they may not be measuring the most important antibodies. The testing would have to provide levels that the science shows demonstrates immunity, and as such is the case, the antibody testing would have to be standardized. But again, given that situation, unvaccinated people with natural immunity could have a few more months of not having to get the vaccine until they test negative. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...covid-immunity
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09-14-2021, 02:21 PM | #974 |
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All 5 members of the family a few doors down from us have been infected TWICE.
And their son who is friends with my 14 yr old, has still had at least his first vaccination. So maybe natural immunity is better but I'll take immunity without getting sick, possibly more than once. Some people just want to infect everybody and it will all be OK, for them, hopefully, or maybe irony will kick in, and it won't be ok for them either...
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09-14-2021, 02:26 PM | #975 |
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09-14-2021, 02:29 PM | #976 | |
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Some people maybe, but the vast majority do not want to infect anyone. Not wanting vaccine does not mean you want to infect somebody. |
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09-14-2021, 03:23 PM | #977 |
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No, it's a whole family, unable to isolate from each other. 5 people, 10 PCR tests. How exactly would there have been a false positive? And how is this anecdotal? One of them came over here yesterday after school and we discussed it. His dad was quite sick for a month. The first time it was caught through the youngest from his daycare.
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09-14-2021, 03:25 PM | #978 | |
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It is an anti-social attitude.
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09-14-2021, 03:54 PM | #979 | ||
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I think I am more likely to be correct, and here is why: if the science showed that an antibody test provided evidence of immunity to the same degree of protection as the vaccine then who would care to argue? Immunity is immunity. All people want is people to be immune from spreading the virus or reduced likelihood of getting hospitalized or dying from COVID. We know with a strong degree of certainty that the vaccines are extremely effective 90-99% (depending on the variant and the vaccine) at preventing severe COVID that would lead to hospitalizations and deaths. We know the vaccines are effective at reducing transmission. If the exact same thing is shown to be the case from previous exposure, and an antibody test could be standardized to demonstrate that robust immunity exists, then the community wouldn't care. The people on the vaccine side of the isle tend to side with science and have less attachment to a particular point of view in the presence of compelling evidence.*
The problem is that many people in support of alternatives to vaccines are only trying to further delay the inevitable, which is that a vaccine will eventually be needed when immunity wanes, pending getting exposed again and again and again, which brings up the second point: most people who don't want the vaccine seem to be fine with getting COVID and gaining natural immunity. For a long time, they have suggested we should let the virus steamroll over the nation, and yes, people will die, but we will reach herd immunity. Obviously this is a terrible idea because many people die, and we would overwhelm the hospitals, while also giving the virus an opportunity to mutate into new variants due to all the hosts, but given a choice between COVID and a vaccine, we know some people would choose to get COVID. Many people who are proponents of the vaccine would be wary of an agreement where someone could not get the vaccine because these proponents would fear that people would be stupid enough to expose themselves to COVID, which is not progressing us in the right direction. *While both side of the political spectrum has people who are vaccine hesitant, there are more conservatives who are vaccine hesitant. Fundamentally, liberals tend to be open to change and side with science, and conservatives tend to be cautious of change and side more with the status quo or with dogma, whether that is religious dogma, political or whatever. As such is the case, liberals will move as the science evolves, so they will be less likely to demand vaccines if the science shows that alternatives are just as effective. The problem will be convincing conservatives and some liberals to get the vaccine when it is demonstrated that they don't have immunity. These holdouts fear microchips. Quote:
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09-14-2021, 03:59 PM | #980 |
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Depending on the test, some do have false positives and false negatives. That's why, even if you get the quick test you often get the lab test. False negatives are less likely than a false positive.
For example, the Abott BinaxNow test is 85$ accurate with Positive and 98% accurate with Negative results. Quidel QuickVue is 83% positive and 99% Negative in testing.
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