COVID Developments and News

[wbradley]

Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution. You need to protect yourself since it's not as though everybody else is on the same page unfortunately.
CaptSpaulding, as an example Is dealing with this conscientiously, as we all should be.

[Atmo]

I had a strange encounter with my 60 year old barber this morning. He couldn't get vaxxed due to an underlying condition until last week when our governor reclassified barbers as health care workers who are mandated to be vaxxed.

He talked with his PC doc who developed a strategy but had him tested first. It turned out that he'd already had COVID but didn't know it. He recalls being extremely fatigued a few months ago after cutting a customer's hair who just returned from, of all places, Wuhan. Maybe it was a coincidence, who knows, he meets so many of the public. So he went to bed for a few days and got better fast.

His doc's strategy was to give him some kind of marrow blaster then Pfizer dose #1 followed a week later by dose #2, apparently a change in protocol that used to be a three week wait between doses of Pfizer. He didn't develop any side effects but it's only been a week since #2.

I remember him not being well last May, thankfully after I had both Pfizer jabs. He's always masked, but I wonder if he accidentally spread the virus to other customers. He only knows of one who had COVID, an older woman who recovered quickly.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Atmo

He only knows of one who had COVID, an older woman who recovered quickly.

He stayed home a couple days, was tested then went back to work. Apparently even with masks it is easily spread through close contact. My father caught it in a longterm care home while in lockdown. The people that came to his apt to deliver food or assist him showering or housecleaning most likely wore masks but they also were exposed to other people who were infected. Unless there was frequent PPE changes and distancing enforced 100% it is very likely he shed virus particles into the air if the virus load was sufficient. The mask and proper air recirculation are the only preventative measures.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by wbradley

He stayed home a couple days, was tested then went back to work. Apparently even with masks it is easily spread through close contact. My father caught it in a longterm care home while in lockdown. The people that came to his apt to deliver food or assist him showering or housecleaning most likely wore masks but they also were exposed to other people who were infected. Unless there was frequent PPE changes and distancing enforced 100% it is very likely he shed virus particles into the air if the virus load was sufficient. The mask and proper air recirculation are the only preventative measures.

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind your post. First, you state "Apparently even with masks it is easily spread through close contact," and you state "Unless there was frequent PPE changes and distancing enforced 100% it is very likely he shed virus particles into the air if the virus load was sufficient," but then conclude that "The mask and proper air recirculation are the only preventative measures."

Hopefully, by now, the knowledge that masks are only effective at stopping droplets..liquid-borne bits of spit, nasal phlegm, etc., that will contain the virus in an infected person.. is accepted common knowledge, as it's been shown in study after study. They simply do not stop the virus itself; even the CDC tacitly recognizes this. Here's a quote from their website:

" They are not only a way of decreasing breathing in the virus, primarily through large respiratory droplets, but also a behavioral reminder that there's a pandemic and life is not the same right now ― and a reminder not to put our hands in our eyes nose or mouth until we've washed our hands."

Even the CDC is careful not to state that cloth and other typical masks do not filter out the actual virus. Another quote from the CDC..

"But the CDC does note, “A cloth face covering may not protect the wearer, but it may keep the wearer from spreading the virus to others.” By wearing a cloth covering in public, the spread of the virus can be slowed by lessening the transmission to others."

Note the use of the word "may." The covid virus is typically described as being between .1 and .3 microns in size, and the typical masks we are all being urged to wear simply don't even come close to being able to filter particles of that size. Imagine a small child standing in front of a train tunnel opening... that's a pretty good analogy.

Here's another article from the CDC that continues the "better than nothing, but not much" data..

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

Yes, I know that the virus is usually attached to some other molecule and is rarely just floating around in the air in its .1 - .3 micron size, and yes, I agree that SOME protection is always better than no protection, assuming the "some" protection doesn't cause more problems than the risk it's meant to mitigate. THAT is the question for all of us.

Another poster recently wrote about an instance where he and a friend dined at a restaurant with tables 30 feet apart, masked, with masked servers, and that his friend tested positive for Covid shortly thereafter, and was convinced that the restaurant was the only place he could have contracted the virus. If so.... then how does that reconcile with mask effectiveness and those who feel vehemently that masks should be universally mandated regardless of the data behind their effectiveness or lack thereof?

Again.. for the zillionth time.. I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't take preventative measures, or that masks are worthless. Only that one should be allowed to make good personal health decisions for one's self, and that one should be fully aware of what typical masks can and can not do.

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...620118%3famp=1

[wbradley]

MuseChaser, unless a person is wearing a full body gown with wide wrist cuffs and gloves overlapping, an N95 mask and an eye screen, there are vulnerable points. That is what I was required to wear in the hospital and it was carefully removed afterward when I visited my father in his last days.
My guess is in a senior home the PSWs would go from room to room with the same gown even though there were infected people present during wave #2. This would never be done in a hospital.
We take precautions to protect ourselves but nothing is 100%. The level of knowledge you have and the care you take can save your life.

I trust myself and take precautions accordingly. I do not trust the general public. Just read the comments on ANY online discussion and you can see why. There are people who are very nonchalant no matter how many are dying around them. Personal health decisions must be made for the public via govt directives, for that nonchalant reason mentioned earlier. Most people should just do as their government instructs. No need to really think it out for yourself since it's pretty black and white.
It's like driving. Follow the rules and avoid issues. No need to reinvent anything.

You can make all the healthy living decisions you want but the basic rules of Covid19 hygiene are straightforward. The mask is one piece of the puzzle, not a panacea.

Mask combined with distancing and lots of circulating air works. Take away 1 or two of those three things and you are vulnerable.

Lantanafrs that is tragic but as my son commented, it would be a lot worse if nobody was vaccinated. Goes to prove people shouldn't be overly confident and still need to try to avoid contracting the virus. Most importantly and what I have been screaming all along, the sooner we take the correct measures, the sooner this virus dies off in our communities. Twice vaxxed, I am still careful when out and about unlike the goof who basically brushed shoulders with me yesterday so he could get his halibut and chips order faster. And he was probably in his 70's.
Most of the tragedies we hear of were avoidable.

[Capt Spaulding]

A few points of clarification. My friend and I were masked, but not ALL the time. It was, after all, a restaurant and we could not eat masked. And our server was masked, but about half of the rest of the staff were not. All were 20 somethings in an unknown vaccination state - I'm betting most were not. We made some mistakes - we probably should have never gone in and when we saw the unmasked staff we should have left. We did, and then we didn't. Visions of fried gulf shrimp and oysters lured us onto the rocks. As a courtesy to us (and any other patrons) ALL of the staff should have been masked, either as a matter of company protocol or, preferably, as a matter of law. The latter has a way of being far more effective.

I know this horse has been soundly beaten. But, people as a rule are really bad at exercising personal responsibility when making decisions regarding their own self interest. They are far, far worse at exercising social responsibility when it comes to the health and safety of others. Much earlier in the pandemic the Republican governor of Utah, finally gave up and imposed a mask mandate. He commented at the time to the effect that he really wanted to let people be personally responsible and so the right things on their own, but they had refused to do them so he forced them.


edit: My friend went in today for an infusion of monoclonal antibodies. We'll see what tomorrow brings. I'm still feeling quite well but, I went to my doctor this morning and got a quick check-up and a snout swab for a PCR covid test. In that case, we'll see what Thursday brings.

[wbradley]

The good news is, as I have read monoclonal antibody treatment is used on patients that are not in a severe state to augment the immune response. So in all likelihood your friend's condition isn't that far gone he is just getting a little help and hopefully he will pull through just fine.
If I was in a restaurant and there were unmasked employees visible, I would leave immediately since it's legally mandated here. Our politicians clearly pick safety over the honor system.
My friend told me a story about the family owned business I worked at and left after 17 years back in 2018. It's an office and a good number of people. The son of the owner is the president and also the kind of guy that doesn't have the time of day for anyone, unless you literally just did something that made him more money. He never worked a day in his life outside his family. Spends the afternoon moving around his Ferraris and Bentley and Rolls in and out the garage at the rear of their industrial building. Anyway, apparently when the office reopened a few weeks ago, ALMOST everyone was masked. The owner's son's 3 boys (around maybe 10, 12 and 14) spent the whole day at the office and without masks walking around everywhere on at least one but probably several occasions. I don't know how I'd react if I was still there but it's stuff like this that makes me sick.

[AnalogMan]

Some additional recent developments on the COVID/pandemic/vaccine front:

Clinical data from the Mayo Clinic confirm Israeli data on declining vaccine effectiveness against the Delta variant

A recent clinical study done by the Mayo Clinic found similarly reduced effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant. By 6 months post vaccination, Pfizer vaccine effectiveness was reduced to 42%. Interestingly, the effectiveness of the Moderna vaccine was 76%.

Both are very similar mRNA vaccines with essentially identical payloads (though slightly different lipid encapsulations). I would bet a key reason for the difference is dosing. The Moderna vaccine is a 100 mg dose vs 30 mg for Pfizer. More than 3x the amount of mRNA could well generate a higher antibody titer (though I haven't seen any data on this). It's been shown that higher antibody levels increase effectiveness against the Delta variant. This might explain why the Moderna vaccine maintains greater effectiveness against Delta for a longer period of time.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....full.pdf+html

Breakthrough infections in vaccinated individuals are an increasing proportion of hospitalizations and deaths

Not surprisingly, vaccinated individuals are representing an increasing proportion of both hospitalized patients, and deaths, from COVID infection. This is not an inditement of the vaccines - they continue to be very effective in preventing serious illness or death - but a combination of both the vaccinated being an increasing proportion of the population, and the reality that the vaccines are not perfect and have reduced and declining effectiveness against the partially-resistant Delta variant.

Nonetheless, vaccination is still the single most effective thing anyone can to to prevent serious illness or death from COVID.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-vaccines.html

But....

Vaccination alone is not enough

The data are clear: while a critically important tool, vaccination alone will not be enough to stop the Delta variant, or the pandemic in general. It's going to require other public health measures, such as wearing masks indoors, masking in schools, and other steps. Otherwise, we will continue to see high levels of infection and death.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...t-defeat-delta

Booster shots will be coming, and needed, for everyone

Israel, Germany, France, the U.K., Russia, and a number of other countries are already administering booster shots. Israel is offering them to anyone over age 50. The U.S. has (finally) acknowledged that booster shots are necessary and will be offered to everyone, with an anticipated timing of starting 8 months after initial vaccination.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-...yt-2021-08-17/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/u...ter-shots.html

Booster shots along are not 'the answer' to 'stopping' the pandemic. But it's the best near-term measure we can take to reduce infections and deaths.

[Capt Spaulding]

The dosage information you report was the main reason I and Major Spaulding opted for the moderna vaccine back in February. Moderna seemed to cause more unpleasant side effects, but the prospect of stronger immunity tipped the balance. I feel conflicted about the boosters. I’m 6+ months on from my first jab and intend to get a booster ASAP. Nevertheless, I’m sensitive to the WHO argument about the shortage of first doses in the developing world and am willing to defer a booster until those needs are better met.

One other thing that I think is fueling the rise in infection among the vaccinated is overconfidence and carelessness. I have a number of friends, most older, who felt the vaccine effectively ended their risk and began to behave accordingly. That, combined with unvaccinated, unmasked people behaving the same way is a bad combination.

[Dadhawk]

My hospital system posted this today on their social media pages. It helps bring home the message I think. The Total Hospitalized and Total on Ventilators is the current state, deaths is since February.

EDIT: As a reference, 3 weeks ago we were down to single digits Hospitalized and had been there several weeks.

[dpfarr]

It saddens me to think the vax resistant using the point of a booster as a reason to further their stance on not getting vaccinated.

A poor way of looking at this, that excess dosage from non vaccinated could be dedicated to boosters (that are needed because of the antivaxxers prolonging this). That’s not the best logic, and agree under chosen circumstances I would prefer nations deprived of getting vaccines because of economic pressures be able to.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The good news is, as I have read monoclonal antibody treatment is used on patients that are not in a severe state to augment the immune response. So in all likelihood your friend's condition isn't that far gone he is just getting a little help and hopefully he will pull through just fine.
If I was in a restaurant and there were unmasked employees visible, I would leave immediately since it's legally mandated here. Our politicians clearly pick safety over the honor system.

Down here, they are offering the Regeneron treatment to patients with mild to moderate cases. I think with the intent of preempting more severe cases. Hope it works.

Yep - we should have left. But those shrimp and oysters man, the Sirens never sang a sweeter song. And we didn't have masts to tie ourselves to. More bluntly put, "too soon old too late smart."

[cjd]

Passing on a booster won't speed up recovery, unfortunately. Theyll probably just end up unused doses.
The larger world-wide problem is daunting and concerning. Anyone not vaccinated is the biggest existential threat at the moment. Clearly it doesn't matter where in the world they are, a successful mutation eventually comes around.