60-130 Vbox and 1/4 Timeslip Database

[spdbydesignchris]

As more and more turbo/supercharger kits come to market, it's become apparent a more quantifiable database is needed to show the true performance of these kits.


Dyno graph data alone is not enough to prove performance, as the data can be so easily manipulated by the dyno operator.


Many a product in this industry has been sold with manipulated data, as poor 1/4 performance gains (or any gains for that matter) has shown.


AMS Performance put out this video in 2013 which opened many consumer's eyes to the validity of dyno data.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwjfZvmPHg"]AMS Performance Dyno Parameter Manipulation Overview - YouTube[/ame]


With that said, I'd like to work with the vendor community and moderator staff to come up with a fair metric by which to compare HP gains.


I would like to propose creating a 1/4 timeslip and 60-130 MPH Vbox (GPS Guided) Database....as these metrics are more reliable indicators of true HP.


Examples across the web:


http://tothefloor.com/60-130-mph-times-for-all-cars/


http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...mile-list.html


http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...r-60-130-list/


http://www.dragtimes.com/vbox-60-130-times.php


I don't propose this for our own gain, but strictly for the sake of general consumers who may be sold a kit that doesn't match up to the sort of gains being marketed by the vendor community. (Not singling out anyone, so please don't take my comments as such.)


I'll let the members discuss, but I do appreciate your time in entertaining the idea.


VBox Performance Box


http://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/inde...performancebox


New 2013 Release- Vbox Sport


http://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/inde...ers/vbox-sport

[JuniorAWD]

Ive always been a big fan of real world times instead of dyno bs.

Helps people realize the talkers from the guys that actually get it done.

I remember giving you shit for your 1000whp GTR trapping what 850whp cars were trapping over on GTRLIFE

[tendogy]

Let he who makes the proposition post the first VBOX and timeslip data.

[spdbydesignchris]

Originally Posted by tendogy

Let he who makes the proposition post the first VBOX and timeslip data.

We'll get it done this upcoming weekend, pending the weather holds.

Getting more snow here at the moment.

[tendogy]

Us too, sleet everywhere. Ugh. Stay safe up there!

[protpibe]

Isn't there some kind of liability on a database administrator that asks people to run their car up to 130mph on the street?

Not trying to be debbie downer, I'm just curious.

[spdbydesignchris]

We plan to get Vbox data at the drag strip, and I hope everyone else would as well.

[mrk1]

What about variables such as tires/track/weather/driver. There is always going to be some discrepancies.

I know I've been down the drag strip about twice so my results would be pretty poor compared to someone who does that kind of thing.

I'm just not one for drag racing, currently I'm building my own turbo kit and it probably wouldn't do great at the drags because that was never in the cards during the design.

Doing something like 60-120 times may work

[tendogy]

I think the "60-130mph" constraint is intended to minimize those variables.

The flip side is that a 60-130mph run is only going to show performance above ~5300rpm. It's a great indicator of true high-end horsepower, but it will mask the deficiencies of a slow-spooling turbo or an overly-parasitic supercharger which will kill low-RPM performance.

Also, 130mph is incredibly optimistic for a 1/4 mile run. Full Blown posted a 10.8s 1/4 mile and it only got to 128mph. The stage 1 kits seems to be getting somewhere in the 100-110mph range in 1/4 mile.

[spdbydesignchris]

The focus is trap speed, which is the indicator of HP.

ET can be found in the 60ft, and isn't the metric that would reflect what the customer would see side by side rolling on the street.

[spdbydesignchris]

Originally Posted by tendogy

The stage 1 kits seems to be getting somewhere in the 100-110mph range in 1/4 mile.

This is meant to be an open discussion, and I'm all ears for setting the Vbox metrics to be compared.

Perhaps it's 60-120, the beauty of the Vbox is that you can set whatever range you want.

The point of this thread is to get the community talking, to centralize data on this platform for all to see.

[protpibe]

Originally Posted by spdbydesignchris

We plan to get Vbox data at the drag strip, and I hope everyone else would as well.

Good idea! Hopefully people don't run out of tarmac before they hit 130mph.

[spdbydesignchris]

See post 11, lol

[CoupedUpSubie]

I see where you guys are coming from with manipulating dyno numbers. At the same time I have found this community to be very critical of each kit built to be marketed. I have seen where large companies like AVO, Greddy, and Vortex say you can expect XXX whp with their kits. They give a range to cover themselves. Companies like MAPerformance who have threads showing the process they went through to build their kit don't market on dyno numbers. Yes they are shown in their thread, but if someone buys their kit and makes 15 whp less then what other cars have made they did good. If nobody makes even close to the same power that company would have a problem on their hands. That is how I see this industry being.

Trap speed is NOT an indicator of horsepower. If you run identical cars with different rear ends the trap speed will be different. I can see where there is just as much room to manipulate numbers with this system as with a dyno.