What engine oil do you guys run?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Try running full E85 in a brand new Mazda DISI or a FOCUS RS.
15% is a lot different than 85%

Many people seem to run e85 on their MS3 or ND Miata just fine.

If you won’t present any concrete evidence that E85 needs a special E85 oil (which doesn’t exist), please stop dropping inaccurate morsels of information bait.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Many people seem to run e85 on their MS3 or ND Miata just fine.

If you won’t present any concrete evidence that E85 needs a special E85 oil (which doesn’t exist), please stop dropping inaccurate morsels of information bait.

No one runs in tank e85 on an MS3 through the HPFP. Max is e30. They run it in secondary aftermarket port injection setups with their own dedicated tanks.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

No one runs in tank e85 on an MS3 through the HPFP. Max is e30. They run IT in secondary aftermarket port injection setups with their own dedicated tanks.

That’s because the MS3 is a very early DI car, which had lots of HPFP failures regardless of mods, and it has no port injection. Therefore the stock system has no overhead for the ~30% extra flow needed to fuel the car with E85. So people run external alcohol tanks that they inject into the manifold. They use methanol though, but you could use ethanol if you wanted to. This is very common for cars where the stock fuel system can’t flow enough to support E85. Many late 2000s DI cars are modified this way. MS3s, BMW 335is, Golfs, etc. It’s not because the fuel system can’t handle ethanol, it’s because E85 requires more fuel volume and they don’t have that kind of overhead.

Now please can you send us a link to that E85 oil? I’d love to try it on my 335i.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

No one runs in tank e85 on an MS3 through the HPFP. Max is e30. They run it in secondary aftermarket port injection setups with their own dedicated tanks.

My brother, who I drive with has been running E85 in his stock powered MX5 that is mapped properly for quite awhile and no adverse effects with performance or oil issues. I've just never heard of different oil for E85

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by TommyW

My brother, who I drive with has been running E85 in his stock powered MX5 that is mapped properly for quite awhile and no adverse effects with performance or oil issues. I've just never heard of different oil for E85

An MX5 is not an MS3 and doesn’t use a DISI engine.
Dexos and GL-5 is oil for e85.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

That’s because the MS3 is a very early DI car, which had lots of HPFP failures regardless of mods, and it has no port injection. Therefore the stock system has no overhead for the ~30% extra flow needed to fuel the car with E85. So people run external alcohol tanks that they inject into the manifold. They use methanol though, but you could use ethanol if you wanted to. This is very common for cars where the stock fuel system can’t flow enough to support E85. Many late 2000s DI cars are modified this way. MS3s, BMW 335is, Golfs, etc. It’s not because the fuel system can’t handle ethanol, it’s because E85 requires more fuel volume and they don’t have that kind of overhead.

Now please can you send us a link to that E85 oil? I’d love to try it on my 335i.

DISI pumps never failed (until >e30). What did happen was they’d fail to produce the Ecu targeted minimum 1600psi rail pressure under WOT load, and a cascade of other failures would result in a ventilated block. You could then take that pump off and put it on another engine and it would run fine under most conditions. E85 gummed up their HPFP because everyone ran Rotella T6 and the car literally will not run.
I have a full DI Aquamist kit that I run meth in.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Now please can you send us a link to that E85 oil? I’d love to try it on my 335i.

Anything that is GF-5 rated. Looks like it wasn't formulated for E85 specifically, just with alternative fuels in mind. Though like has already been pointed out, no dilution issue, no problem. Mostly it seems like it was developed around sludge protection since so many new vehicles have VVT to prevent failure with the solenoids.

Dexos I can't find any documentation on in relation to E85. Most of what I found is that it is GM specific due to the way 2011 and up GM vehicles calculate oil life and that if you aren't running a "Dexos" oil they can deny your warranty claim.

Emulsion testing is also an important part of GF-5 compliance, due largely to concerns about exotic fuels like E85 getting into the oil. As Dr. Sutherland explained, "GF-5 testing in this area is done to ensure that the oil can tolerate some fuel contamination without loss of performance. There's also seals testing done to ensure that GF-5 oil works well with new and old engine seals and gaskets, such as valve stem seals and front and rear main crankshaft seals. We have to be certain that the oil gets along well with any newly developed elastomers used to make seals."

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

DISI pumps never failed (until >e30). What did happen was they’d fail to produce the Ecu targeted minimum 1600psi rail pressure under WOT load, and a cascade of other failures would result in a ventilated block. You could then take that pump off and put it on another engine and it would run fine under most conditions. E85 gummed up their HPFP because everyone ran Rotella T6 and the car literally will not run.
I have a full DI Aquamist kit that I run meth in.

That’s because E30 doesn’t require AS MUCH overhead as E85 needs. I explained this already. The pump can’t get to the proper rail pressure because the ECU is trying to dump 30% more fuel than it was designed for. The fact that the pump works fine in a different car afterwards just proves that it’s not the fuel system being incompatible with E85, just not having enough overhead to supply the car with 130% the fuel it was designed for.

Originally Posted by Tokay444

An MX5 is not an MS3 and doesn’t use a DISI engine.

DISI stands for Direct Injection Spark Ignition, so it sure does.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

That’s because E30 doesn’t require AS MUCH overhead as E85 needs. I explained this already. The pump can’t get to the proper rail pressure because the ECU is trying to dump 30% more fuel than it was designed for. The fact that the pump works fine in a different car afterwards just proves that it’s not the fuel system being incompatible with E85, just not having enough overhead to supply the car with 130% the fuel it was designed for.





DISI stands for Direct Injection Spark Ignition, so it sure does.

I know what DISI stands for. It’s also the engine code from the MS3, MS6, and CX7. It is not the engine code from any MX5. It’s a different fuel pump, along with many other differences. The Skyactivs share nothing in common with their DISI predecessors.
Now explain the fuel pump sludge to the point of failure on >e30. Here’s a hint, it’s got nothing to do with fueling overhead. We tried auxiliary fueling and full E. pumps clogged up.
The fact the pump runs in a different car on GASOLINE, is not proof of anything of the sort.
The pumps themselves literally do not fail until after e30. The cascading failures I described above can happen on gasoline with a stock pump.

[Tokay444]

GF-5* sorry. Not GL-5. I think that’s a gear oil rating.

[NoHaveMSG]

Couldn't find anything on the underlying cause of the issues on the MS3, just some info confirming it is related to E85/oil mixing. I could only assume a small amount of fuel is bleeding over a seal on a regular enough basis to cause the issue in the HPFP.

https://blog.edgeautosport.com/runni...our-mazdaspeed

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

GF-5* sorry. Not GL-5. I think that’s a gear oil rating.

so beyond all the specs and voodoo do our cars enter into the realm of what you’ve determined to be problematic

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by TommyW

so beyond all the specs and voodoo do our cars enter into the realm of what you’ve determined to be problematic

Do you run E85?

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Do you run E85?

no