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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 08-19-2021, 01:28 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
I love how you get a bunch of (genreally non owners) journalists talking about the 'peak torque 3000 rpm lower than the previous gen'

Not really a criticism, just funny. I mean the OG car almost had its peak before the dip - it was like 153 or something, so its not so much that the torque wasn't just as high initially, its just that it drop its guts for 1.5k revs.

Only a few journalists have correctly emphasised the torque curve being what is important.
In maths, this is called argmax(f(x)).
I was dealing with a math problem the other day and, until I realized it was the argmax, I was very confused by some properties of the problem I was seeing.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:05 PM   #226
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GR86 first drive reviews thread

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Originally Posted by Guff View Post
It feels the same as the 17+ cars IMO. The Zenki cars with the simple steering wheel had the best steering feel of the whole group I think. The GR86 is still good though, but definitely not a huge change.


Also, I saw somebody mention the knuckle; here are pictures I took of the front knuckle. Definitely aluminum. However, this car we were filming on was a pre-production prototype. I didn't check the cars we were driving.

Also, here's the rear suspension. The lower arms definitely seem like a thicker gauge steel than the previous combination arms. Which is good because the old LCA's often broke.

Wow so this actually suggests these are BRZs that were cosmetically modified to look like Toyota’s.

BRZ rear subframe
BRZ knuckles
BRZ sway bars if the blue marks don’t lie

Spring rates and damping are unknown though.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:11 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Hah. Matt may fit fine from his prospective, but it looks like me trying to stuff myself into one of those kid's plastic "flintstone" cars..
Still not as bad as a certain someone's Exige though!
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:13 PM   #228
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Hah. Matt may fit fine from his prospective, but it looks like me trying to stuff myself into one of those kid's plastic "flintstone" cars..
Haha yeah I get the feeling that at his size, he’s used to feeling cramped in sports cars so it’s relative to that. Should be better than a Miata, s2000, Elise, etc.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:17 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Wow so this actually suggests these are BRZs that were cosmetically modified to look like Toyota’s.
I think what it means is that these cars were made, Toyota tested them and decided to make changes to the car. These cars were already made, so they'll loan them out as press cars and whatnot likely never to be sold to anybody.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:32 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by dragoontwo View Post
I think what it means is that these cars were made, Toyota tested them and decided to make changes to the car. These cars were already made, so they'll loan them out as press cars and whatnot likely never to be sold to anybody.

I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:45 PM   #231
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GR86 first drive reviews thread

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Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.

Keep the buzz going. You can’t push the timetable 6 months to implement changes without throwing the Internet some new content, especially when the BRZ is sticking to the original schedule and they knew Nissan was revealing the Z around now. This event and the embargo date were very strategic.

I agree that it’s misleading, but I understand why they did it.

Nice to know the Subaru handles great though
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Old 08-19-2021, 03:46 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
The Zenki cars with the simple steering wheel had the best steering feel of the whole group I think.
Other than the buttons on the wheel does the “kouki” (‘17+ gen1) have a (noticeably) different steering setup?
Never driven a ‘12-16, however I don’t recall reading the steering itself was (significantly) changed for ‘17+?
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Old 08-19-2021, 03:58 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.
An alternative explanation:
All the changes we saw in the technical overviews on the June 8th event in Japan were JDM-only,
and the US market GR 86s will in fact have aluminum front knuckles and chassis-mounted rear ARB.
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:08 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Keep the buzz going. You can’t push the timetable 6 months to implement changes without throwing the Internet some new content, especially when the BRZ is sticking to the original schedule and they knew Nissan was revealing the Z around now. This event and the embargo date were very strategic.

I agree that it’s misleading, but I understand why they did it.

Nice to know the Subaru handles great though
To further confuse this idea, it is possible that the photos I am showing you are not indicative of the cars we were driving.

The photos I posted were specifically of the one stationary car they had on display. They specifically told us that this car was not close to production and was just there for static display imagery.

This car seemed mostly put together however the doors were locked and the body panels were slightly off. The car was also wrapped, not painted, indicating that this was not originally the red color. It seemed to be black underneath.

It's possible that this was a converted BRZ (or early 86 prototype) that they "borrowed" to have another display car, but the GR86s we were driving were full US production spec.

I didn't take note of the rear subframe discrepancy at the time, but the front aluminum knuckles did surprise me. Sadly, not enough for me to want to take a peek under one of the driving cars.

The vast majority of the stationary shots you see in reviews online are with this prototype vehicle.

The curious thing about this event was the fact that there were not that many GR86s for us to drive. They told us they simply couldn't produce enough of them due to time constraints. I'm thinking perhaps these last-minute development changes are related to that. But I'm not certain.


Edit: Taking a look through the Press Kit, which includes photos of the very cars we drove, I have found a few photos that may be revealing.









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Last edited by Guff; 08-19-2021 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:45 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
Edit: Taking a look through the Press Kit, which includes photos of the very cars we drove, I have found a few photos that may be revealing.
These photos show parts that should be only on a GR 86: iron knuckles, and rear-facing subframe-mounted ARB brackets.

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Originally Posted by Guff View Post
To further confuse this idea, it is possible that the photos I am showing you are not indicative of the cars we were driving.

The photos I posted were specifically of the one stationary car they had on display. They specifically told us that this car was not close to production and was just there for static display imagery.

...

It's possible that this was a converted BRZ (or early 86 prototype) that they "borrowed" to have another display car, but the GR86s we were driving were full US production spec.

I didn't take note of the rear subframe discrepancy at the time, but the front aluminum knuckles did surprise me. Sadly, not enough for me to want to take a peek under one of the driving cars.

The vast majority of the stationary shots you see in reviews online are with this prototype vehicle.
Case closed?
And perhaps they shouldn't have put a mechanical BRZ there for everyone to take detailed pictures
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Old 08-19-2021, 06:01 PM   #236
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Well it would be a pretty big screwup if the press kit has pics of BRZ parts in it.

@ so those pictures showing the white car on a lift are from a car that was driven at the event?
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Old 08-19-2021, 06:54 PM   #237
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Now that we're fairly certain that the cars actually were GR86 spec and not disguised BRZs, did anyone notice any mention of extreme oversteer or hard to control slides in any review? The closest I remember is Throttle House's mention of unpredictability and "4 wheel drift" but they attributed that to the Pilot 4 tires. Could that have been the toe changes in the rear as reported in the Japanese tests?
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Old 08-19-2021, 07:52 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Well it would be a pretty big screwup if the press kit has pics of BRZ parts in it.

@ so those pictures showing the white car on a lift are from a car that was driven at the event?
Yep, those pictures are from the garages at Monticello Raceway. I believe that car is VIN# JF1MSHZN9U4000057, which was a Halo White Premium that we drove on track.

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Now that we're fairly certain that the cars actually were GR86 spec and not disguised BRZs, did anyone notice any mention of extreme oversteer or hard to control slides in any review? The closest I remember is Throttle House's mention of unpredictability and "4 wheel drift" but they attributed that to the Pilot 4 tires. Could that have been the toe changes in the rear as reported in the Japanese tests?
The car felt progressive at the limit, just like the first gen. Monticello raceway had plenty of off-camber and elevation changes and the car was predictable as expected through the rear suspension travel.

I drove both the base and the premium on the different tire setups and the Primacies were as slidey as they were on the old car. Pilot 4's on the Premium suited the car very well for my driving style, plenty of grip but easy to rotate the rear on throttle when you're at the limit.

On the bumpy NY backroads it very much just felt like I was driving my BRZ. The balance is basically unchanged from what I felt. No wacky toe-out on compression like an S2k or anything, at least in the few hours I got with the car.
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