New 2017 Auto-X rubber coming?

[Rio]

Originally Posted by renfield90

At this point your head is in a hole if you think the Rival S 1.0 wasn't on par with the RE-71R.

Guess which tire won STX, STR, STF, and other classes last year?

Guess which tire was faster in the GRM test?

I don't know which event you are talking about because it was clearly NOT the Lincoln Finals. When you look at the results from last year and compare correctly you will find that in STX the fastest 86s ran REs. The winner was on a completely different car and therefore it is not a fair comparison. Then you go to CS and REs were also on top of the Miatas, 86s, 350zs, and RX8.

When you do the real count REs took about 23 classes while BFG took about 7 and most of those where in classes that use tire sizes larger than what the REs come in.

And Yes, I have ran both.

[renfield90]

You've tested both? Thanks for having a properly informed opinion, even if I disagree with it.

Originally Posted by Rio

When you look at the results from last year and compare correctly you will find that in STX the fastest 86s ran REs. The winner was on a completely different car and therefore it is not a fair comparison.

I take issue with this though. You can't cherry pick your results; reasoning like this would get your thesis paper tossed in a hurry. Many of those 23 classes you cited do not let you change springs; what happens if you only include Street Touring classes in your analysis?

Making a chassis fast is largely a product of selecting a suspension that makes sure the tires spend the most time in their happy place. Craig figured out how to do that and was the fastest car on both days; I don't accept that a similar result can't be done on the twins for this tire just because the car is different, especially when so many competitors are simply copying some known setup (which happens to work well with the Bridgestone) and not doing any work to better it.

You also have to consider the STR winner, using a very similar tire size to STX, in a car that is roughly similar to the twins in terms of weight, power, and drivetrain layout.

Lastly, you ignored the GRM results. The big caveat is that the car used for testing both times was setup specifically to work with the BFGs, so it's not a total shock the Bridgestone was slower. But it's also worth noting that the 1.5 was a little faster than the 1.0, which suggests the BFG/Bridgestone balance may change this year.

I'll stop being a BFG apologist though. After all, why advocate for you to have a better chance of beating me? See you in Lincoln.

[Rio]

Originally Posted by renfield90

You've tested both? Thanks for having a properly informed opinion, even if I disagree with it.


I take issue with this though. You can't cherry pick your results; reasoning like this would get your thesis paper tossed in a hurry. Many of those 23 classes you cited do not let you change springs; what happens if you only include Street Touring classes in your analysis?

Making a chassis fast is largely a product of selecting a suspension that makes sure the tires spend the most time in their happy place. Craig figured out how to do that and was the fastest car on both days; I don't accept that a similar result can't be done on the twins for this tire just because the car is different, especially when so many competitors are simply copying some known setup (which happens to work well with the Bridgestone) and not doing any work to better it.

You also have to consider the STR winner, using a very similar tire size to STX, in a car that is roughly similar to the twins in terms of weight, power, and drivetrain layout.

Lastly, you ignored the GRM results. The big caveat is that the car used for testing both times was setup specifically to work with the BFGs, so it's not a total shock the Bridgestone was slower. But it's also worth noting that the 1.5 was a little faster than the 1.0, which suggests the BFG/Bridgestone balance may change this year.

I'll stop being a BFG apologist though. After all, why advocate for you to have a better chance of beating me? See you in Lincoln.

I have tested the RE and Rival s 1.0. I did compile a response because I also felt you made a very general statement about the results. I saw the GRM results and that's why I initially got the Rivals.

Now to my opinion on this season. I am definitely going to try the 1.5s because, like mentioned before, they were amazing in sweepers and I hope the are now better performing in slalom. And our regional events are in smaller places than let's say Crow's Landing so we have more slaloms in our courses. I loved that tire but my car felt more stable on REs. I am also very curious about the RS4

The other thing to consider is wear. REs can be flipped but Rivals are asymmetric so they tend to have shorter lifespans.

Well see what happens this year and I hope to see you, not beat you, at Lincoln.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Rio

The other thing to consider is wear. REs can be flipped but Rivals are asymmetric so they tend to have shorter lifespans.

Well see what happens this year and I hope to see you, not beat you, at Lincoln.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

You can flip Rivals. Tread is asymmetric, but construction is symmetric according to BFG engineers. I've set top index a couple times like that.

[Rio]

Originally Posted by renfield90

You can flip Rivals. Tread is asymmetric, but construction is symmetric according to BFG engineers. I've set top index a couple times like that.

Cool, thank you!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[frslee]

Just to add new tire in the same extreme performance category. Tirerack now carries Falken's new RT615K+. Supposedly it has updated compound from RT615K. They're running $100 off promotion, which is a good deal for drivers with tight budget. I ordered a set and will be using these for this year's events. Best tires in its category would be nice, but as long as it provides more grip than my summer tires then I'm all set.

[oinojo]

Originally Posted by frslee

Just to add new tire in the same extreme performance category. Tirerack now carries Falken's new RT615K+. Supposedly it has updated compound from RT615K. They're running $100 off promotion, which is a good deal for drivers with tight budget. I ordered a set and will be using these for this year's events. Best tires in its category would be nice, but as long as it provides more grip than my summer tires then I'm all set.

Word from Falken has its as fast as the Rival S 1.0 but not as fast as RE71R...

[frslee]

Originally Posted by oinojo

Word from Falken has its as fast as the Rival S 1.0 but not as fast as RE71R...

Haha of course. Falken was doing their job, advertising. RE71R is no doubt few best in its class. I don't expect Falken's new tire to be amazing, but cost effective enough to have fun.

[Stang70Fastback]

I saw a post on Facebook that the Rival S 1.5 was testing better than the RE71R on lighter cars...
...NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BUY. The Rivals are also pretty expensive.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

I saw a post on Facebook that the Rival S 1.5 was testing better than the RE71R on lighter cars...
...NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BUY. The Rivals are also pretty expensive.

Who is that person? Buy them and try them out.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by G_Ride

Who is that person? Buy them and try them out.

Jason P. A friend of Bill L. I'm not friends directly. Just saw the thread on my News Feed. And Jason was just relaying information HE had heard so... lol. The exact post was:

The new BFG Rival 1.5's are testing better than the RE71R on the lighter STR cars. Hmmmmmmmm

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Jason P. A friend of Bill L. I'm not friends directly. Just saw the thread on my News Feed. And Jason was just relaying information HE had heard so... lol. The exact post was:

It might have been Tom Reynolds STR ND Miata. I had the opportunity to drive the car and while I didn't get to run it on RE71R the car didn't *feel* much different than my FRS on the stones, laterally. However, the car didn't feel much different transitonally when thinking back to our shop STR ND on the rival 1.0, fwiw.

The times for the 1.5 were faster over the RE71R on that car and on that surface, consistently.

Edit: this was similar findings on our STS crx on this surface, except it was rival 1.0 in a 225/15 vs RE71R in a 205

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by jwisjw

It might have been Tom Reynolds STR ND Miata. I had the opportunity to drive the car and while I didn't get to run it on RE71R the car didn't *feel* much different than my FRS on the stones, laterally. However, the car didn't feel much different transitonally when thinking back to our shop STR ND on the rival 1.0, fwiw.

The times for the 1.5 were faster over the RE71R on that car and on that surface, consistently.

Edit: this was similar findings on our STS crx on this surface, except it was rival 1.0 in a 225/15 vs RE71R in a 205

Thanks Jeff...never heard your side of the story with Tom's testing

Stang, pretty sure findings on tires and the Delta between Stones and Rival 1.5s are going to come down the driver preference and being more comfortable with x versus y.

Tom kind of Echo'd that, he could attack the course a bit easier with the Rivals which equated the a quicker time for him, on the course, on that surface.

YMMV. But unless the next couple events show top drivers losing consistent Deltas to a Rival 1.5 tire, I wouldn't jump ship or change your season plans


- Coming from someone who has 1.5s in their basement.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Jason P. A friend of Bill L. I'm not friends directly. Just saw the thread on my News Feed. And Jason was just relaying information HE had heard so... lol. The exact post was:

So far it seems it's still sweepers vs transitions... You should stick with the Primacies though.