Supra...killing the 86/BRZ?

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Don't believe there would be enough volume to warrant it. Even with the 86 in the mix both versions are sort of a "loss leader" type vehicle that was more a dream of Toyota execs than anything. The history shows that Subaru was pretty much forced into it in the first place so the odds of the carrying on by themselves are very very low. Add the fact that by 2022 Subaru will be building all their other models on the same global platform and it makes very little business sense to run one plant to build one model on a dedicated platform. I would be totally shocked if they carried on with it by themselves.
In fact now that I think this through I am going to speculate that come 2022 we may see the demise of the platform simply because Subaru is changing to the single one. We will come back in three years and see how good my crystal ball reading was. I could be way off base because as I have said before much of what the auto industry does makes no apparent sense since we are not privy to the long term goals and plans.

What you said does make sense, lets hope your prediction is not correct and the platform lives on for a while longer.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

...In fact now that I think this through I am going to speculate that come 2022 we may see the demise of the platform simply because Subaru is changing to the single one. We will come back in three years and see how good my crystal ball reading was. I could be way off base because as I have said before much of what the auto industry does makes no apparent sense since we are not privy to the long term goals and plans.

I just don't see the 86 continuing for another 3 model years with no changes. It would be a 10 year old platform at that point. They are going to have to either update or let it die before then.

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by DandoX

What you said does make sense, lets hope your prediction is not correct and the platform lives on for a while longer.

I wonder, with as much general hate the 86/BRZ have gotten, how they will be viewed 10-15 years from now if they do stop production after a 10-year run? (2020)

Personally, I'm in love with the platform. The engine...ehh. But the exterior styling, light weight, interior simplicity and relatively cheap running costs make it quite the fun daily driver.

As they say, hindsight is everything. If/when the 86/BRZ and 370Z go away it might very well mark the end of the manual Japanese sports car. Luxury car makers are out of the game, GTR, Supra/Z4, 3-series no longer have it. Manuals are dying faster than I predicted.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

I wonder, with as much general hate the 86/BRZ have gotten, how they will be viewed 10-15 years from now if they do stop production after a 10-year run? (2020)

Personally, I'm in love with the platform. The engine...ehh. But the exterior styling, light weight, interior simplicity and relatively cheap running costs make it quite the fun daily driver.

As they say, hindsight is everything. If/when the 86/BRZ and 370Z go away it might very well mark the end of the manual Japanese sports car. Luxury car makers are out of the game, GTR, Supra/Z4, 3-series no longer have it. Manuals are dying faster than I predicted.

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The MT is not dead yet and won't be in the near future. Sure many of the vehicles that still have it are not on this forums wish list but that doesn't mean it is dead. I count around 75 North Americana vehicles that still offer it. There are probably two or three times that many in Europe and Asia.

https://www.tflcar.com/2017/09/2018-...ehensive-list/

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The MT is not dead yet and won't be in the near future. Sure many of the vehicles that still have it are not on this forums wish list but that doesn't mean it is dead. I count around 75 North Americana vehicles that still offer it. There are probably two or three times that many in Europe and Asia.



https://www.tflcar.com/2017/09/2018-...ehensive-list/

It's not dead yet but is unfortunately well on the way. The list you provided can be nearly cut in half...and it's not even a year old. As platforms change and we move into the 2020+ year range it will continue to get worse.

The fact that the freaking Supra won't have one is just...beyond my comprehension as an enthusiast. It saddens the part of me that loves driving and all things dealing with cars.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I just don't see the 86 continuing for another 3 model years with no changes. It would be a 10 year old platform at that point. They are going to have to either update or let it die before then.

Sure they can get 3 more years out of it. It has always been a "take it or leave" it model in their eyes anyway. They can just do a few minor changes each year, build lesser and lesser of them and then just wrap it up. They are obviously working to a plan since there are no spy shots of yards full of unsold one or them coming off the line straight to a crusher (ala Aztec) so the sales numbers reflect the manufactured numbers and that will only happen through very careful planning. In fact if the OP is right and they are marking them UP in some areas they may not be meeting current demand. It is rare but not unheard of for a model to make long runs with few changes especially if the end of life was planned before the first car came off the line..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

My area basically only carries the higher level trims in a manual. I have seen exactly ONE 86 Manual priced at $29.5k since 2016. Dealers here don't give a shit. They always have it at MSRP + package + $600-800 in local add-on crap nobody wants...but they refuse to remove it nor take it off the price. Believe me, I've tried. It's why I finally gave up and bought mine used.

2015, bone stock, dark grey, manual and paid less than half what the stealerships want new.

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OK well that is not a "base" price then.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

It's not dead yet but is unfortunately well on the way. The list you provided can be nearly cut in half...and it's not even a year old. As platforms change and we move into the 2020+ year range it will continue to get worse.

The fact that the freaking Supra won't have one is just...beyond my comprehension as an enthusiast. It saddens the part of me that loves driving and all things dealing with cars.

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If the lack of a MT causes you so much grief then you are not a car or driving enthusiast but a shifting one. This more to liking cars and driving then just rowing through gears.

The list is reduced for 2019 but certainly not by half. It will get smaller still but not because they got rid of the MT but because they just won't make those cars anymore in any form.

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If the lack of a MT causes you so much grief then you are not a car or driving enthusiast but a shifting one. This more to liking cars and driving then just rowing through gears.



The list is reduced for 2019 but certainly not by half. It will get smaller still but not because they got rid of the MT but because they just won't make those cars anymore in any form.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Shifting gears on your own is the very definition of a driver. Pointing the steering column in a direction and mashing a single pedal does not make a driver.

Understanding weather, tire and road conditions, knowing when to down or upshift based on vehicle load and terrain combined with previously mentioned attributes...that, at a minimum, is what makes a competent driver.

If I was simply a fan of shifting gears I'd get a motorcycle. Much cheaper, faster and nearly unlimited options. Yet that's not what I'm interested in. At all. Understanding the dynamics, limitations and mechanical attributes of my car, and myself as a driver, are what matters to me.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Shifting gears on your own is the very definition of a driver. Pointing the steering column in a direction and mashing a single pedal does not make a driver.

Understanding weather, tire and road conditions, knowing when to down or upshift based on vehicle load and terrain combined with previously mentioned attributes...that, at a minimum, is what makes a competent driver.

If I was simply a fan of shifting gears I'd get a motorcycle. Much cheaper, faster and nearly unlimited options. Yet that's not what I'm interested in. At all. Understanding the dynamics, limitations and mechanical attributes of my car, and myself as a driver, are what matters to me.

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Not going to debate this again but you can do all that with an AT. How the gears change is only one part of driving. If you think that shifting is the only definition of driving then you have never driven.

[Mr.Impreza]

Toyota just pulled a NSX on us. They built a car nobody asked for.

This has no Japanese soul and it doesn't even come manual.

I guess if you always wanted a BMW with a Toyota badge, your dreams have true.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

Toyota just pulled a NSX on us. They built a car nobody asked for.

This has no Japanese soul and it doesn't even come manual.

I guess if you always wanted a BMW with a Toyota badge, your dreams have true.

Although I agree with the sentiment I have to point out that what they built is EXACTLY what they said they were doing all along. The fact that it turned out to be what it is should not have come as a surprise to anybody.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The MT is not dead yet and won't be in the near future. Sure many of the vehicles that still have it are not on this forums wish list but that doesn't mean it is dead. I count around 75 North Americana vehicles that still offer it. There are probably two or three times that many in Europe and Asia.

https://www.tflcar.com/2017/09/2018-...ehensive-list/

Toyota only sells manuals in Tacoma, Corolla, and 86. I Doubt they will even offer it in corolla & tacoma in 2025 and that is certainly the near future. Most Toyotas will be moving towards HV, PHV, EV by 2030...Plus self driving tech will get a push in the next decade.

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

The ones saying the 86 is faster than a supra..... we dont know that yet.

Who's seriously saying an 86 is faster than the Supra?
Did Toyota lie about 4.1 seconds?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Toyota only sells manuals in Tacoma, Corolla, and 86. I Doubt they will even offer it in corolla & tacoma in 2025 and that is certainly the near future. Most Toyotas will be moving towards HV, PHV, EV by 2030...Plus self driving tech will get a push in the next decade.



Who's seriously saying an 86 is faster than the Supra?
Did Toyota lie about 4.1 seconds?

They meant faster than the 4 banger version that is not coming here.

Yep it is doomed I just was saying that there are still more than the two cars he listed, it wont be all gone next year or that there will be none at all. Odds are there will be something still around when self driving cars become required and you will have to drive your MT on a driving preserve someplace. Meanwhile in Europe and Asia it will solder on as standard equipment.