BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[Tokay444]

Lol.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by ninjan00dles

Nearly all cars require track prepping, the issue with the 987.1

Can the OP get into a used V6 1LE? In my experience, the 1LE line is one of the few factory cars that really is truly track ready from the factory. The V6's can be had in the low 20's.

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I never understand why enthusiasts think any production car will be reliable long term if tracked.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a good amount of modern production cars that are long term reliable when tracked... Look at basically any modern GM performance vehicle or something like the Veloster N. They are so confident in their longterm reliability that they warranty track-use...

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by ZDan

My oil gets to indicated 272F every time I go out on track. This is not a problem for good synthetic oil. I do run 30-weight, might go to 40 next year...

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Temperature isn't the issues, so an oil cooler isn't the solution.

Knew a guy who said the same thing, he blew his engine at the track a few months later.

It's been accepted for a while that an oil-cooler (or heat exchanger) is a must-have on these cars for aggressive use. Running 5W30 helps a little, but it isn't enough to solve the issue

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Can the OP get into a used V6 1LE? In my experience, the 1LE line is one of the few factory cars that really is truly track ready from the factory. The V6's can be had in the low 20's.



I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a good amount of modern production cars that are long term reliable when tracked... Look at basically any modern GM performance vehicle or something like the Veloster N. They are so confident in their longterm reliability that they warranty track-use...

Really, factory warranty for 36 months is not long term. They know the issues will come after the warranty is over. I have been on many car forums for 25 years or so, so many issues with cars that are tracked. This includes P cars and lotus ( although better than subies for sure) Long term reliability is related to proper maintenance, track prep setup and of course the nut driving the car. People in this thread have listed a number of things to track prep a car, these things were all learned through the pain and suffering of others who’s engines or tranny failed from track use. They all have a weakness that needs to be addressed. You have to pay to play.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by alex87f

Knew a guy who said the same thing, he blew his engine at the track a few months later.

Failure without an oil cooler does not mean failure *because* no oil cooler... In fact there have been failures *with* oil coolers as well. And at least one failure *because* oil cooler (leaked, ran low on oil).

It's been accepted for a while that an oil-cooler (or heat exchanger) is a must-have on these cars for aggressive use.

I know people preach that, but when I researched the issue when I bought my car, I couldn't find any hard evidence. I did find a lot of parroting of "you need an oil cooler" though. Honestly when I first tracked the car and oil temperature started to climb, I figured I'd have to come in early every session and get an oil cooler before the next event. But it stabilized at a tick over 270F indicated and held there, which is exactly what it's done every event since, even with ambient temps at 95F.

Running 5W30 helps a little, but it isn't enough to solve the issue

Some of these cars (mainly '13s?) seem to have oil delivery issues at high rpm, with or without a cooler. This guy had failures (built motor at 7600rpm), did some serious investigating and found cavitation on the intake side of the pump, apparently solved this with a larger-diameter straight pickup tube: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863

Anyway, good synthetic oil at 270-275F isn't a problem for the oil itself (indeed 300+ shouldn't be a prob), but you should change it often and probably run at least 30, maybe 40 weight at those temps IMO...

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by alex87f

Knew a guy who said the same thing, he blew his engine at the track a few months later.

It's been accepted for a while that an oil-cooler (or heat exchanger) is a must-have on these cars for aggressive use. Running 5W30 helps a little, but it isn't enough to solve the issue

Lol. Why not run something appropriate for the duty cycle of that particular engine? Oils spec'd for that particular purpose have no problem running >260*. That's just getting warmed up.
Oil cooler is a bandaid for people who want to run the wrong oil for their intended purpose.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Really, factory warranty for 36 months is not long term. They know the issues will come after the warranty is over. I have been on many car forums for 25 years or so, so many issues with cars that are tracked. This includes P cars and lotus ( although better than subies for sure) Long term reliability is related to proper maintenance, track prep setup and of course the nut driving the car. People in this thread have listed a number of things to track prep a car, these things were all learned through the pain and suffering of others who’s engines or tranny failed from track use. They all have a weakness that needs to be addressed. You have to pay to play.

Hyundai's PT warranty is 10 years. I'd consider that longterm as I've never ever had a car for more than 3 years. Yes, they warranty the car with track use for all 10 years. You are genuinely wrong, and there's real-world examples to prove it. Just because our cars (and the cars you've owned) need some things to track, doesn't mean that others don't come track ready.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Just because our cars (and the cars you've owned) need some things to track, doesn't mean that others don't come track ready.

IMO our cars only need appropriate brake pads and DOT4 or 5.1 brake fluid to track. Better tires and camber bolts would be a good idea, and still generally considered "stock"...

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by ZDan

IMO our cars only need appropriate brake pads and DOT4 or 5.2 brake fluid to track. Better tires and camber bolts would be a good idea, and still generally considered "stock"...

Oh yeah, they don't need much. But the point is, you can take an SS 1LE off the showroom floor right to the track. Beat the shit out of it, you'll likely be one of the quickest people at any HPDE, and it'll do it reliably with a track warranty to boot.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Lol. Why not run something appropriate for the duty cycle of that particular engine? Oils spec'd for that particular purpose have no problem running >260*. That's just getting warmed up.
Oil cooler is a bandaid for people who want to run the wrong oil for their intended purpose.

Yup modern synthetic oils can live well into the 300's with no problems at all. I think the issue is specific to the overall design of the oiling systems, if the motors are able to maintain pressure at higher temps, if the motors have tolerances that allow heavier weight oils, etc. FA20's may have problems running in the upper 200's due to oil pressure limitations + thinner oil requirements, but other motors (factory motors) run in that range as normal. Just part of the larger engineering picture.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I never understand why enthusiasts think any production car will be reliable long term if tracked. I mean anyone who has watched a race or been to a race can see even well designed race cars specifically engineered for a specific racing fail all the time. It’s the whole point of racing, pushing the limits of machine and man. So if you fell for the track ready marketing you were only fooling yourself.

Have you done track events? Not being a ****, but track events aren't races. Any as already mentioned plenty of cars are reliable on track, again and again. Operating a car within it's designed parameters shouldn't cause failure. And 117,000 miles is nothing these days.

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Can the OP get into a used V6 1LE? In my experience, the 1LE line is one of the few factory cars that really is truly track ready from the factory. The V6's can be had in the low 20's.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a good amount of modern production cars that are long term reliable when tracked... Look at basically any modern GM performance vehicle or something like the Veloster N. They are so confident in their longterm reliability that they warranty track-use...

I certainly see the value and performance of 6th gen Camaros, but were I to decide on that platform I would just save up a bit longer and get an SS. Need that V8, for the whole proper ponycar experience

And agreed, I wouldn't hesitate to track any Honda sport(y) car (that's naturally aspirated). Plenty of others as well.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Hyundai's PT warranty is 10 years. I'd consider that longterm as I've never ever had a car for more than 3 years. Yes, they warranty the car with track use for all 10 years. You are genuinely wrong, and there's real-world examples to prove it. Just because our cars (and the cars you've owned) need some things to track, doesn't mean that others don't come track ready.

There isn't fuck all in the Hyundai line-up that ANYone could confuse for track ready.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Oh yeah, they don't need much. But the point is, you can take an SS 1LE off the showroom floor right to the track. Beat the shit out of it, you'll likely be one of the quickest people at any HPDE, and it'll do it reliably with a track warranty to boot.

Until it overheats and goes into limp mode, because the cooling system isn't track ready.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Yup modern synthetic oils can live well into the 300's with no problems at all. I think the issue is specific to the overall design of the oiling systems, if the motors are able to maintain pressure at higher temps, if the motors have tolerances that allow heavier weight oils, etc. FA20's may have problems running in the upper 200's due to oil pressure limitations + thinner oil requirements, but other motors (factory motors) run in that range as normal. Just part of the larger engineering picture.

Let's dispel one thing. The engine does not have a, "thinner oil requirement." The EPA mandated fuel economy numbers do.