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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 04-10-2021, 12:02 PM   #29
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Honestly, on my very first track day (HPDE with Hooked on Driving at Thunderhill East) I did mostly fine all day, not pushing too hard and trying to learn.

But inevitably I still ate it hard and went fully off-track in my last session of the day. My 73 year old, former race car driver instructor who'd been riding with me and also taking me in his 2017 PP BRZ out on the track showed me how to tackle one corner and I got waaay over-confident. I felt like I was ready at the end of the day to accomplish it the same way.

And, well, nope.

Fortunately no damage because that part of the track has so much run-off. But the things to worry about depending on the track are walls, ditches, other cars.

Like what happens if you spin out and somehow wind up back on the track because you aren't experienced enough yet to control where you're going/stop in a safe area? And then someone hits you because it's beginner group and people aren't necessarily 100% attentive to new things happening on the track?
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Old 04-10-2021, 12:30 PM   #30
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Update: So I went out without insurance, and it was fine. But I still plan to buy insurance for all future track days I run. Several other cars had incidents (no car-to-car collisions though).
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Old 04-11-2021, 10:34 AM   #31
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Update: So I went out without insurance, and it was fine. But I still plan to buy insurance for all future track days I run. Several other cars had incidents (no car-to-car collisions though).
Thats usually the case. Insurance feels like a waste of money till it's not. But hopefully you never get there. Most people probably do just self-insure.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:54 PM   #32
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Thats usually the case. Insurance feels like a waste of money till it's not. But hopefully you never get there. Most people probably do just self-insure.
As someone who works for an insurance company (nothing to do with track insurance), it's really just balancing the potential risk. If the charge for Track Day Insurance were thousands of dollars per event then it wouldn't be worth it IMO. However, a few hundred dollars for a $40K-$60K car makes it very worth it.

In our cases, most of us are running 5+ year old cars and the the minimum policy is usually for $20K of value and that has meant right around $160 for me through Hagerty. I find that to be completely worth since I'm not ready to throw away my car if something bad does happen. Also, if you run enough events in the season then there are policies that cover the entire season that offer a better deal.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:14 PM   #33
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Thats usually the case. Insurance feels like a waste of money till it's not. But hopefully you never get there. Most people probably do just self-insure.
If you can't financially or mentally absorb the loss of your car, get track insurance.

There is ways you can total your car at the track that are completely out of your control (i.e. someone hits you, or you hit someone else's oil/antifreeze and spin into a wall)... but the odds of that are likely between 10,000:1 to 1000:1

Last time I quoted track insurance, it was about $200 for $20,000 of coverage, which works out to about 1%. So the insurance company figures the odds of getting in an accident are << 1/100, if they want to make any profit. Some tracks with limited runoff see a lot more loss (i.e. Sonoma)

I have about 40+ trackdays, and only a couple close calls, but I know others that have had really bad luck. From my observations, most incidents occur to drivers with 5 to 15 trackdays of experience; Enough experience to have speed, but limited car control/recovery skills.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:20 PM   #34
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I think about it this way:
Insurance companies calculate their quotes using the limited info you provide them through their online forms (or whatever other means you use to get a quote).

Typically they don't have enough info to distinguish between
  • someone who got a driver's license 10 years ago, didn't drive anything since then, and then suddenly decided to yolo, buy a car, and go straight to the track
  • someone with 10 years of actual experience, who decided to go to the track for the first time
  • someone with 10 years of experience, and outstanding sim racer
  • someone with 10 years of experience, and outstanding sim racer, and 20 years of competing in karting championships
They just take their data of "among other customers with the same input values, how much did we end up paying on average", add a margin for profit, and are done with it. The way their business works is that people who don't get into trouble pay for people who do get into trouble, and the middle man gets some %.

That also means that people who are less likely to get into trouble but can't express that in the form pay more than they should; and people who are more likely to get into trouble but also the form can't reveal that end up paying less than they should.

Now, from an individual perspective, the question is what is your risk level.
Some people say "I want the amount I may possibly need to pay if something goes bad to be no more than XYZ dollars" — they typically are better off buying insurance. If XYZ is so low that there's no insurance that provides that, they probably shouldn't go to the track.

If it's your daily driver, and you don't have the means to just write it off if it gets totaled, I'd recommend getting an insurance.

Some people say "In 99.9% of cases, I want to pat at most XYZ, but in the 0.1% of really unfortunate cases I'm ok to pay more" — they might be able to find some more affordable insurance options.

Some people say "Look, I know I drive safer than an average driver with the same experience, so I don't want to overpay for insurance" — whether it's based on their karting or sim racing experience, or just bravado There were some cool lectures by Dan Ariely on how bad humans generally are at estimating risk though.

For me personally the BRZ is a second ("fun") car, and I still have my daily. Buying the BRZ was already a "luxury" for me. I'm always ready to just write the BRZ off if something bad happens at the track. I'm not saying I'm a millionaire and can just change totaled cars like torn shoes, but I won't go broke if it does happen (I will be very sad for a while though). I also have a few years of sim racing and hobby karting experience, so I hope I drove at least a bit safer than other folks in the novice group when I was there.

I have purchased track insurance only once, which was the first time I went to Laguna Seca. I was just crashing way too often at that track in iRacing
The only time I had damage to my car at the track, my estimate of damages didn't reach even half of the deductible that I would have had on the insurance (went off at Thunderhill into a not-so-flat area, scratches the bumper, some clips flew off).

Having said that, I've also seen people totaling their cars on their first or second track day, including more expensive cars like Porsches. Some of those crashes were in places I couldn't even imagine someone crashing...

I do still think about insurance when I plan a track day at a new unfamiliar/dangerous track, or with a new org that has bad reputation. Then I thin maybe I should just skip a track day with that org altogether

P.s. thanks folks for highlighting the hidden "damage to the track" costs! This will probably not change my own strategy at this point, but this is something I'll bring up to my friends if they reach out to me re: track insurance in the future.
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Old 04-13-2021, 08:28 AM   #35
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I got a year long policy with OpenTrack; covers unlimited track days at any sanction track in the US. It also covers two drivers for the insured car.

I added an optional rider to my policy for any damage caused by my car to other cars since my home track is AMP (member) and there are a ton of folks out driving their GT3s and Mclarens (usually pretty slowly). The last thing I want to do is have to replace somebody's GT3. Hopefully I never have to use the insurance but I feel it's critical to have.
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Old 04-13-2021, 11:54 AM   #36
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I got a year long policy with OpenTrack; covers unlimited track days at any sanction track in the US. It also covers two drivers for the insured car.

I added an optional rider to my policy for any damage caused by my car to other cars since my home track is AMP (member) and there are a ton of folks out driving their GT3s and Mclarens (usually pretty slowly). The last thing I want to do is have to replace somebody's GT3. Hopefully I never have to use the insurance but I feel it's critical to have.
How much?
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