Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[Stonehorsw]

[Irace86.2.0]

If my K24 turbo doesn’t work for me then I’ll be going back to the Harrop SC on the new GR86. It’ll be interesting to see the potential on the new motor.

[Tatsu333]

I wonder what they had to do to adapt the FA24F to the 86...?

Did the block bolt straight in, or were custom mounts needed?

Are they running the straight direct injection setup (and ECU) from the Ascent, or are they running the 86's D4S injection? Or some kind of standalone setup?

Did the supercharger manifold bolt straight up, or was some kind of adapter needed?

What pulley setup were they running (I.E. how much boost to hit the numbers shown)?

What was the difference between the two runs - just a pulley change, or was that gasoline vs. E85?

[RedReplicant]

Really interested to see if they eventually offer some kind of adapter kit for the FA24.

[Irace86.2.0]

I doubt we would see an adapter kit. Do they have any swap components? They probably wanted a head start on development, and maybe they are allowed a same-manufacturer swap for their time attack class.

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I doubt we would see an adapter kit. Do they have any swap components? They probably wanted a head start on development, and maybe they are allowed a same-manufacturer swap for their time attack class.

It's for people who have a Harrop on their FA20 and are upgrading their cars but want to carry forward their mods. Other than intake port size , its essentially the same block with same pulleys and ancillaries. So should be a very easy adapter, should they wish.

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[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Brz-123

It's for people who have a Harrop on their FA20 and are upgrading their cars but want to carry forward their mods. Other than intake port size , its essentially the same block with same pulleys and ancillaries. So should be a very easy adapter, should they wish.

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It would need to be a very small spacer with longer bolts. If there is an offset on bolt spacing requiring a taller spacer or more than a centimeter in height then they would need to also modify the intake to fit, potentially provide a longer belt, potentially provide longer hoses to the heat exchanger, and who knows what else. They could do it for the very limited Harrop owners doing FA24D swaps, but I would be surprised if they did. The word is they won’t even be supporting the FA20D anymore with superchargers, possibly.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I doubt we would see an adapter kit. Do they have any swap components? They probably wanted a head start on development, and maybe they are allowed a same-manufacturer swap for their time attack class.

Originally Posted by Brz-123

It's for people who have a Harrop on their FA20 and are upgrading their cars but want to carry forward their mods. Other than intake port size , its essentially the same block with same pulleys and ancillaries. So should be a very easy adapter, should they wish.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It would need to be a very small spacer with longer bolts. If there is an offset on bolt spacing requiring a taller spacer or more than a centimeter in height then they would need to also modify the intake to fit, potentially provide a longer belt, potentially provide longer hoses to the heat exchanger, and who knows what else. They could do it for the very limited Harrop owners doing FA24D swaps, but I would be surprised if they did. The word is they won’t even be supporting the FA20D anymore with superchargers, possibly.

From the (admittedly not super detailed or scaled) images on the Subaru parts websites of the various intake manifolds and gaskets, the intake runner shapes and gaskets where they connect to the heads look similar between all generations of FA20D, FA24D and FA24F. Whether they're THE SAME with THE EXACT SAME SPACING (as well as the spacing of the intake manifold mounting bolts) or not is another question, but it looks feasible.

If so, then they could very well be pre-testing fitment of the supercharger manifold for the FA24D, but then why would they need to?

More likely this is just a one-off swap for the racecar, whether adapter plates to mount the supercharger manifold are needed or not. With the lower compression of the FA24F, it's not really a "proof of concept" for the kit bolting onto an FA24D in any case.

If there IS a difference at the manifold gaskets and / or manifold bolts between the FA20D and FA24D, I'd be surprised if they'd go to the expense of re-casting the entire supercharger manifold for the FA24D application and throw away the molds for the FA20D. More likely they'd come up with some sort of adapter plates OR make the lower runners a separate, interchangeable part between the two platforms and keep the upper part of the manifold / supercharger housing as-is.

With the extra hood clearance the Harrop kit has vs. the Edelbrock, for example, I'd guess there's room for them to use some kind of adapter plate solution, and that would be MUCH cheaper, but if the bolt holes were to just barely NOT line up, that wouldn't be possible. Likewise if the hood clearance in the 2nd gen is reduced, but I'd be surprised if that were the case just from looking at the shapes.

Of course, this is all coming from someone who hasn't been hands-on with the Harrop kit like iRace86 2.0 has, so take all of the above with a grain of salt...

Hopefully, no physical adaptation of any kind is needed, and the manifold just bolts right up! Then the difference between the two kits would maybe just be in the ancillary parts and tuning (which nobody has cracked the code on for the 2nd gen yet).

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

From the (admittedly not super detailed or scaled) images on the Subaru parts websites of the various intake manifolds and gaskets, the intake runner shapes and gaskets where they connect to the heads look similar between all generations of FA20D, FA24D and FA24F. Whether they're THE SAME with THE EXACT SAME SPACING (as well as the spacing of the intake manifold mounting bolts) or not is another question, but it looks feasible.

If so, then they could very well be pre-testing fitment of the supercharger manifold for the FA24D, but then why would they need to?

More likely this is just a one-off swap for the racecar, whether adapter plates to mount the supercharger manifold are needed or not. With the lower compression of the FA24F, it's not really a "proof of concept" for the kit bolting onto an FA24D in any case.

If there IS a difference at the manifold gaskets and / or manifold bolts between the FA20D and FA24D, I'd be surprised if they'd go to the expense of re-casting the entire supercharger manifold for the FA24D application and throw away the molds for the FA20D. More likely they'd come up with some sort of adapter plates OR make the lower runners a separate, interchangeable part between the two platforms and keep the upper part of the manifold / supercharger housing as-is.

With the extra hood clearance the Harrop kit has vs. the Edelbrock, for example, I'd guess there's room for them to use some kind of adapter plate solution, and that would be MUCH cheaper, but if the bolt holes were to just barely NOT line up, that wouldn't be possible. Likewise if the hood clearance in the 2nd gen is reduced, but I'd be surprised if that were the case just from looking at the shapes.

Of course, this is all coming from someone who hasn't been hands-on with the Harrop kit like iRace86 2.0 has, so take all of the above with a grain of salt...

Hopefully, no physical adaptation of any kind is needed, and the manifold just bolts right up! Then the difference between the two kits would maybe just be in the ancillary parts and tuning (which nobody has cracked the code on for the 2nd gen yet).

I just hope you are right but listen to Savage geese from 11:15 to 11:45. I don't think the intake manifold or valves are the same. They are a bit bigger to take in more air I believe.

Also see this 11:10 to 11:40 which tells you how taller the new manifold is..

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[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

From the (admittedly not super detailed or scaled) images on the Subaru parts websites of the various intake manifolds and gaskets, the intake runner shapes and gaskets where they connect to the heads look similar between all generations of FA20D, FA24D and FA24F. Whether they're THE SAME with THE EXACT SAME SPACING (as well as the spacing of the intake manifold mounting bolts) or not is another question, but it looks feasible.

If so, then they could very well be pre-testing fitment of the supercharger manifold for the FA24D, but then why would they need to?

More likely this is just a one-off swap for the racecar, whether adapter plates to mount the supercharger manifold are needed or not. With the lower compression of the FA24F, it's not really a "proof of concept" for the kit bolting onto an FA24D in any case.

If there IS a difference at the manifold gaskets and / or manifold bolts between the FA20D and FA24D, I'd be surprised if they'd go to the expense of re-casting the entire supercharger manifold for the FA24D application and throw away the molds for the FA20D. More likely they'd come up with some sort of adapter plates OR make the lower runners a separate, interchangeable part between the two platforms and keep the upper part of the manifold / supercharger housing as-is.

With the extra hood clearance the Harrop kit has vs. the Edelbrock, for example, I'd guess there's room for them to use some kind of adapter plate solution, and that would be MUCH cheaper, but if the bolt holes were to just barely NOT line up, that wouldn't be possible. Likewise if the hood clearance in the 2nd gen is reduced, but I'd be surprised if that were the case just from looking at the shapes.

Of course, this is all coming from someone who hasn't been hands-on with the Harrop kit like iRace86 2.0 has, so take all of the above with a grain of salt...

Hopefully, no physical adaptation of any kind is needed, and the manifold just bolts right up! Then the difference between the two kits would maybe just be in the ancillary parts and tuning (which nobody has cracked the code on for the 2nd gen yet).

These are spacers for the FA20F to adapt the FA20D’s intake manifold. The spacers help it to clear components, but it looks to me like the bolt holes are slightly different.

I think the car is just a test bed for their time attack car and to drum up hype for a FA24 kit that’s coming to the GR86/FA24D. I don’t foresee much profit in the R&D for spacers.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Brz-123

I just hope you are right but listen to Savage geese from 11:15 to 11:45. I don't think the intake manifold or valves are the same. They are a bit bigger to take in more air I believe.

Also see this 11:10 to 11:40 which tells you how taller the new manifold is...

Taller / longer runners doesn't necessarily mean the connections to the heads are different. The additional length can be just from more height in the manifold itself, or a smaller central plenum to make the runners themselves longer.

The difference with the intake valves is within the head internals, not where they connect to the intake manifold. Likewise there was some talk about the intake ports being different - again, that's within the head internally, not at the connection between the manifold and heads.

Given that the stroke of the motors is the same, the compression ratio is the same, the width of the block is apparently the same, and the general concept of the motor is the same, I think (hope!) it's likely that particular area of the architecture is the same.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

These are spacers for the FA20F to adapt the FA20D’s intake manifold. The spacers help it to clear components, but it looks to me like the bolt holes are slightly different.

I think the car is just a test bed for their time attack car and to drum up hype for a FA24 kit that’s coming to the GR86/FA24D. I don’t foresee much profit in the R&D for spacers.

Totally agree - I think it's done exactly for that reason. I just have a hard time seeing them going to the expense of a new manifold casting for an FA24D kit and completely dropping the FA20D. Hopefully, it's a non-issue and the existing manifold just bolts right on to an FA24D. If not, then it's either adapt the existing manifold, change the design to have the bottom of the runners interchangeable, or keep both castings on the books and just produce the kits as demand drives them.

Again, hopefully, the existing manifold just bolts right up. If so, Edelbrock will be happy as well.

EDIT: Interesting to visually see the difference in runner dimensions between the FA20D and FA20F - look at the taper down from top to bottom on those adapters! I believe there was some mention that, being turbo, the FA20F didn't need the big runners of the FA20D for cylinder-filling. Maybe the FA24F has similar runner dimensions to the FA20D due to the greater displacement? Here's hoping!

[BAT_BRZ]

Can anyone confirm if Harrop Superchargers are back in stock? Their website (Harrop-USA) is promoting the availability and stock of units. Sent an email but don't know if their staff is OOS for the holidays ( I hope they are! ), wanted to see if the hivemind knew.

[BAT_BRZ]

From Harrop: No - new website launched. Working out the kinks, stock not expected until next year. (paraphrased)

[ojuniour]

damn..I'm actually thinking about swapping blocks to fa24 if the header port hasn't changed..including the mount. *crosses finger*