Suspension or steering noise?

[alex87f]

Hey everyone,

I’m finally turning to the forums after being unable to find the reason for my suspension noises. So here we go:

The problem: a suspension rattle over uneven pavement at lower speeds (up to, say, 30mph). I noticed it driving over unpaved roads, but it mostly happens over low-quality, damaged asphalt. Sounds as though something, somewhere at the front of the car is loose. Not related to throttle / braking, but it might be to steering.

What I’ve checked:
-play in the wheels (up in the air): nothing, zero, none.
-play in the ARB links: same, tested with both wheels on the ground
-wheels tightness: nothing to declare. Happens with both winter & summer wheels (both stock rims & tire size)
-loose strut top bolt or strut brace bolts: not that
-loose engine mount: I can’t get the engine to move at all, and I can’t hear anything when revving it in neutral
-loose shit in the bumper (rocks & stuff): removed a few things, but that didn’t alter the noise in any way

I am now at my wit’s end. The car is a completely stock ’13 with about 65 000 miles. Never tracked, and no mods history either.

Here’s a video where you can sort of hear it. I’ve also recorded a steering noise that might be related to this:

Driving footage (can especially be heard at the 3'' mark)

Static footage

Any ideas from this great forum? :-D

[strat61caster]

Might be this? I've got a few odd noises to diagnose as well and this is my best guess, yours sounds a little quieter then the videos here though.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116756

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Might be this? I've got a few odd noises to diagnose as well and this is my best guess, yours sounds a little quieter then the videos here though.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116756

+1 Early in the game. Just starting to fall apart.

[alex87f]

Dang. I was really hoping for something easier to fix.
Oh well, there goes one of my winter weekends.

[ermax]

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133606

It is easy to fix. And cheap.

Took me forever to isolate the sound to the steering column. To me it always sounded like it was coming from the passenger footwell. My son argured one day that it sounded like it was coming from my footwell. He was right. This problem is super common on EPS Toyotas in countries with bad roads. I know Americans like to complain about everything but our roads are a shit ton better than other parts of the world.

[Ultramaroon]

I'm pretty sure that this is caused by smacking the wheels into the hard stops. The servomotor hammers that coupling really hard.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm pretty sure that this is caused by smacking the wheels into the hard stops. The servomotor hammers that coupling really hard.

By hardstops I assume you are talking about turning the wheel all the way to lock. If so, yeah that may be part of it but the frequency that you smack the stops compared to the abuse it sees over bumpy roads over the life of the car is minimal. When bumps force the wheels to turn it puts torque on the sensor so the motor activates as if you were trying to turn the wheels. The thing is the bumps doesn't load in one direction like when you are going around a turn. The bumps oscillate the motor back and forth rapidly which just beats the hell out of the rubber in the OEM coupler. It seems to be the people that consistently drive on washboard roads that complain most often. Just run through that EPS thread. People with issues are in Russia, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Africa, ect.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ermax

By hardstops I assume you are talking about turning the wheel all the way to lock. If so, yeah that may be part of it but the frequency that you smack the stops compared to the abuse it sees over bumpy roads over the life of the car is minimal. When bumps force the wheels to turn it puts torque on the sensor so the motor activates as if you were trying to turn the wheels. The thing is the bumps doesn't load in one direction like when you are going around a turn. The bumps oscillate the motor back and forth rapidly which just beats the hell out of the rubber in the OEM coupler. It seems to be the people that consistently drive on washboard roads that complain most often. Just run through that EPS thread. People with issues are in Russia, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Africa, ect.

Frequency vs magnitude. You can poke an elastomer a bazillion times if it's within it's ability to absorb the energy. Hit it hard a few times with a hammer, though...

I get what you're saying. With enough motivation to build an accelerated lifecycle test rig, I'd wager a friendly lunch bet over it.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Well, I get to parallel park frequently AND drive on the crap roads of Baltimore. So I get the best of both worlds!

Anyway, starting to suspect the noise I have is this thing. Still a chance it could be the old and crusty OEM top mounts I put on my car in between suspension changes. Swapping again soon so I'll be able to verify. 2016 with 34k miles.

- Andrew

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Frequency vs magnitude. You can poke an elastomer a bazillion times if it's within it's ability to absorb the energy. Hit it hard a few times with a hammer, though...

I get what you're saying. With enough motivation to build an accelerated lifecycle test rig, I'd wager a friendly lunch bet over it.

I don’t know I’d suspect hitting uneven patches on the interstate at 80mph would hit harder than smacking the lock when doing a U-turn or something like that. Also, the EPS module knows the position of the wheel and knows where the limits are. I suspect it drops the assist at both ends. You could probably measure the electric load as you hit the lock. If it doesn’t spike at both ends then it probably isn’t hitting that hard. I sort of recall there being a channel you could log in Techstream that has the electric load. The torque sensor can probably also be logged.

To me the most convincing evidence is the areas of the world seeing the issue most often. We know the countries I listed have bad roads. Do the drivers in these countries also slam their wheels to lock more often. I sort of doubt it.

When I first started looking for a fix for this I literally only found info on Russian forums and it was a bitch to translate. Those Russians love to bounce off the locks on their Corolla’s, Camry’s and Twins I guess.

Anyways, I see what you are saying but I’m not buying what you’re selling.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Well, I get to parallel park frequently AND drive on the crap roads of Baltimore. So I get the best of both worlds!

Anyway, starting to suspect the noise I have is this thing. Still a chance it could be the old and crusty OEM top mounts I put on my car in between suspension changes. Swapping again soon so I'll be able to verify. 2016 with 34k miles.

- Andrew

I’m assuming you have a lot of track time on your car. If so, I would think the curbs would put a hell of a beating on the coupler. My car probably had this problem a lot longer than I realized. The sound no doubt evolves from more of a thump that you write of as something else to a full on chatter that can no longer be ignored. Once fixed it’s like your in a luxury car or something. You’re sort of like, “hmm, I don’t recall this car ever soaking up bumps without any sound at all”. I just checked my log, I replaced mine at 99k miles. I’m at 136k now and it’s still good. Hyundai had the same issue with couplers crumbling. Unlike Toyota they issued a TSB with an improved coupler and that is the coupler I used on my car.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ermax

Anyways, I see what you are saying but I’m not buying what you’re selling.

Russians still know how to take shit apart and fix it the cheap way. You and I are the exception here. The kinetic energy dissipated by slamming a full-speed rotor to a dead stop is orders of magnitude greater than it can exert reversing itself within a fraction of a degree under its own power

Saying you suspect that it drops power at the end of travel doesn't cut the mustard. Go flick the wheel into the hard stop and come back to me with your argument. That motor is cranking at full bore when it hits.


Wait...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ermax

I’m assuming you have a lot of track time on your car. If so, I would think the curbs would put a hell of a beating on the coupler. My car probably had this problem a lot longer than I realized. The sound no doubt evolves from more of a thump that you write of as something else to a full on chatter that can no longer be ignored. Once fixed it’s like your in a luxury car or something. You’re sort of like, “hmm, I don’t recall this car ever soaking up bumps without any sound at all”. I just checked my log, I replaced mine at 99k miles. I’m at 136k now and it’s still good. Hyundai had the same issue with couplers crumbling. Unlike Toyota they issued a TSB with an improved coupler and that is the coupler I used on my car.

I really think the accumulation of driving I do on the city roads I drive on is harder on the suspension/steering than a track day or the rally-x I do. Although the rally-x is pretty tough.

It is interesting that nearly every post I see of busted couplers is on a 2013 model, but who knows.

Either way, if the sound doesn't go away next time I swap suspensions I'll have a pretty good idea of what to do next. Gonna grab one of those Hyundai couplers in the meantime. Thank you for the DIY and figuring it all out.

- Andrew

[Ultramaroon]

Yes! Regardless of the root cause, @ermax, thank you for doing the hard work and documenting it.

It may have been a batch of sub-par, or incorrectly specified material in those inserts. In that case, they would have been doomed no matter who used them. Who knows?