2022 Limited Stereo?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Why not just use something like Spotify via CarPlay / Android Auto, or a USB stick that fits 100x more songs than a CD possibly can?

Personally I have been worn down and I mostly use Spotify nowadays just for convenience, but something important has been lost since the days of CDs.

Audio quality. CDs have a bit rate of 1411 compared to only 256 for high quality mp3s, and streaming quality is ...a mixed bag at best.

Amazon music offers a high quality setting(HD setting or something like that) and that has better quality than any other streaming service I've tried, but it's not approaching the quality of a CD, and you have to pay extra for that tier, and the desktop app is pretty bad compared to Spotify. To top it off, most of the music on the service is not offered in the high quality tier.

.FLAC files are the best sounding digital file I have used and are generally comparable to CDs, but (years ago, it may be easier now) I had to find a special media player for my phone to even play them. .FLACs sound much better even over a bluetooth connection. But, they are the opposite of convenient to use, and it is hard to find them without paying an arm and a leg. Everyone wants to sell you crappy .MP3s.

A whole generation is being raised without even knowing what good quality music sounds like. I could rant about this topic for a while, I love high quality audio even though the equipment I can afford at home is far from the best.

So, I could see why someone might want a CD player, particularly if they already have a collection of CDs.

[LanceLane174]

Originally Posted by Pete

Personally I have been worn down and I mostly use Spotify nowadays just for convenience, but something important has been lost since the days of CDs.

Audio quality. CDs have a bit rate of 1411 compared to only 256 for high quality mp3s, and streaming quality is ...a mixed bag at best.

Amazon music offers a high quality setting(HD setting or something like that) and that has better quality than any other streaming service I've tried, but it's not approaching the quality of a CD, and you have to pay extra for that tier, and the desktop app is pretty bad compared to Spotify.

.FLAC files are the best sounding digital file I have used and are generally comparable to CDs, but (years ago, it may be easier now) I had to find a special media player for my phone to even play them. .FLACs sound much better even over a bluetooth connection. But, they are the opposite of convenient to use, and it is hard to find them without paying an arm and a leg. Everyone wants to sell you crappy .MP3s.

A whole generation is being raised without even knowing what good quality music sounds like. I could rant about this topic for a while, I love high quality audio even though the equipment I can afford at home is far from the best.

So, I could see why someone might want a CD player, particularly if they already have a collection of CDs.

I am an audiophile as well, but have moved to Spotify for convenience at 50 years old.

You may not know but these cars have Harmon Kardon head units which are awesome at taking streamed music and making it sound better. It isn't perfect but it is pretty damn good. Just set Spotify to highest quality and save your music on your phone for best sound. Then I mess with my phone's equalizer to get a good sound and put the head unit bass up a bit, treble down a bit and mid up a tiny bit. Sounds pretty awesome in my Legacy and wife's Forester. Crossing fingers for BRZ. But I do have confirmation it is a Harmon Kardon head unit. With the good sound processing.

I am hoping for a sub woofer that connects. The old ones say they aren't compatible, but I still have hope they are.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by Pete

Personally I have been worn down and I mostly use Spotify nowadays just for convenience, but something important has been lost since the days of CDs.

Audio quality. CDs have a bit rate of 1411 compared to only 256 for high quality mp3s, and streaming quality is ...a mixed bag at best.

Amazon music offers a high quality setting(HD setting or something like that) and that has better quality than any other streaming service I've tried, but it's not approaching the quality of a CD, and you have to pay extra for that tier, and the desktop app is pretty bad compared to Spotify. To top it off, most of the music on the service is not offered in the high quality tier.

.FLAC files are the best sounding digital file I have used and are generally comparable to CDs, but (years ago, it may be easier now) I had to find a special media player for my phone to even play them. .FLACs sound much better even over a bluetooth connection. But, they are the opposite of convenient to use, and it is hard to find them without paying an arm and a leg. Everyone wants to sell you crappy .MP3s.

A whole generation is being raised without even knowing what good quality music sounds like. I could rant about this topic for a while, I love high quality audio even though the equipment I can afford at home is far from the best.

So, I could see why someone might want a CD player, particularly if they already have a collection of CDs.

Would this difference be noticed on the crappy BRZ system? I barely used the sound system on my 18 as the sound was too bad. Even my wife (that don’t care too much about that) would complain about the quality.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Would this difference be noticed on the crappy BRZ system? I barely used the sound system on my 18 as the sound was too bad. Even my wife (that don’t care too much about that) would complain about the quality.

I found the difference very noticeable even on the first gen FRS audio system. The quality of the source file matters.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by LanceLane174

I am an audiophile as well, but have moved to Spotify for convenience at 50 years old.

You may not know but these cars have Harmon Kardon head units which are awesome at taking streamed music and making it sound better. It isn't perfect but it is pretty damn good. Just set Spotify to highest quality and save your music on your phone for best sound. Then I mess with my phone's equalizer to get a good sound and put the head unit bass up a bit, treble down a bit and mid up a tiny bit. Sounds pretty awesome in my Legacy and wife's Forester. Crossing fingers for BRZ. But I do have confirmation it is a Harmon Kardon head unit. With the good sound processing.

I am hoping for a sub woofer that connects. The old ones say they aren't compatible, but I still have hope they are.

Assuming it's Gen 4 which I believe I remember seeing, BRZ will have a Denso HU, not HK. I can verify though.

[mazeroni]

TheTopher said the sound system in the GR86 Premium is much better than the previous generation. Although it isn't really a scientific test. He had also driven a refreshed 86 and a BRZ Ts, but I don't know if he is referring more to his BRZ.

@19:50

Savageese doing a more technical test says the lower spec system is bad for music enthusiast.

@2:50

[SpectreRT]

After digging into it more, I'm really interested to hear a TRUE review of the sound system. Dont get me wrong, this is a drivers car - so I'm not expecting to be wow'd by the sound system. But I think we can all agree the 2013-2020 BRZ stereo was subpar at best.

Since it appears the Premium stereo has Panasonic components, and the Limited has Pioneer components... I can only assume it's a true stereo upgrade overall. Probably nothing like the Miata Bose solution. But I'll take any upgrade over how it was before.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Pete

CDs have a bit rate of 1411 compared to only 256 for high quality mp3s, and streaming quality is ...a mixed bag at best.

You're comparing PCM uncompressed bitrate with FFT-based compressed bitrate. It's like comparing torque of an impact gun with the torque of FA20.

There have been numerous blind tests where people with all kinds of background have been unable to tell the difference between CD/lossless and 320 kbps MP3 using all kinds of equipment, or even said that the MP3 sounds better. There are many explanations to that, but I don't want to go too far off topic.

Originally Posted by Pete

.FLAC files are the best sounding digital file I have used and are generally comparable to CDs

FLAC and other lossless formats is the way to go if you think you can hear the difference through the not-so-high-end sound system in our cars.
You can put as many as you want on a USB stick of a large enough capacity.

Originally Posted by Pete

But, they are the opposite of convenient to use, and it is hard to find them without paying an arm and a leg. Everyone wants to sell you crappy .MP3s.

If you already have a CD, you can make your own FLAC files very easily.

Originally Posted by Pete

I could see why someone might want a CD player, particularly if they already have a collection of CDs.

... because they haven't figured out how to "invest" a little bit of inconvenience once (put whatever music they want on a USB stick in whatever format they prefer), and instead deal with regular inconvenience on a daily basis (swapping CDs, or listening to the same 10 songs over and over), while coming up with hundreds of excuses why this is the right thing to do, and blame modern car manufacturers that they stop making CD players?

Originally Posted by Pete

.FLACs sound much better even over a bluetooth connection.

Oh, FLAC and Bluetooth...
If you care about audio quality, just don't use Bluetooth, period.
Another reason to use a USB stick if you really want to get the best results.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Pete

I found the difference very noticeable even on the first gen FRS audio system. The quality of the source file matters.

It also depends on the codecs.
The exact same same file from the exact same phone using the exact same app sounded vastly different in a 2016 Mazda 6 (fine) and a 2016 VW Passat (horrible) when using Bluetooth.
And I don't mean treble/bass/etc balance, I mean one felt like 256+ kbps MP3, and the other one felt like 96 kbps MP3.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

There have been numerous blind tests where people with all kinds of background have been unable to tell the difference between CD/lossless and 320 kbps MP3 using all kinds of equipment, or even said that the MP3 sounds better. There are many explanations to that, but I don't want to go too far off topic.

Not everyone can tell the difference or cares. Some people can and do.

Originally Posted by timurrrr

If you already have a CD, you can make your own FLAC files very easily.

That is true for 1 CD, but 'very easily' is definitely subjective. How many CD's are we talking about here? A 300 CD collection would take quite an investment of time to rip to .FLAC. Popping in a different disc takes seconds.

Originally Posted by timurrrr

... because they haven't figured out how to "invest" a little bit of inconvenience once (put whatever music they want on a USB stick in whatever format they prefer), and instead deal with regular inconvenience on a daily basis (swapping CDs, or listening to the same 10 songs over and over), while coming up with hundreds of excuses why this is the right thing to do, and blame modern car manufacturers that they stop making CD players?

Why would you care if someone else doesn't mind swapping a CD in return for better sound quality?

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Oh, FLAC and Bluetooth...
If you care about audio quality, just don't use Bluetooth, period.
Another reason to use a USB stick if you really want to get the best results.

Yeah that's kind of the point I was making, even over a Bluetooth connection, I can still hear the difference between .FLACs and normal Spotify streaming clearly. The source quality matters. Over a wired connection the quality gap only gets bigger.



To be clear what I would prefer is not a return to CD players (I don't own any CDs anymore), what I want is for the MP3 format to die a fiery death. It's almost 2022 and it is inexcusable that lossless formats are not the standard for any kind of purchased or streamed music.

If my phone can stream HD video without a problem why is the music so muddy?

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Pete

what I want is for the MP3 format to die a fiery death. It's almost 2022 and it is inexcusable that lossless formats are not the standard for any kind of purchased or streamed music.

Couldn't agree more!
Although for most people, "high quality" is good enough.

And most streaming apps today stream over mobile data, which can be slow, or even not-unlimited.
I'd also very much prefer those streaming apps to have a better user experience around pre-caching
music, and playing everything without an internet connection.

Originally Posted by Pete

That is true for 1 CD, but 'very easily' is definitely subjective. How many CD's are we talking about here? A 300 CD collection would take quite an investment of time to rip to .FLAC. Popping in a different disc takes seconds.

Well, we're back to my argument about the upfront investment of inconvenience vs regular minor inconvenience.

You also don't need to rip all CDs at once.
I had most of my music library in FLAC/APE back in the day, growing one CD at a time.

Originally Posted by Pete

Why would you care if someone else doesn't mind swapping a CD in return for better sound quality?

I don't care what people do if they already have a CD player.
But I do care if people complain about a new car coming out in 2021 and not having a CD player as a major problem.
After all, keeping a CD player would increase the cost, one way or another.
A head unit can be made slimmer and lighter if it no longer needs to have a CD/DVD disc reader.

[SpectreRT]

The new BRZ has a 3.5mm input jack, so you can technically bring your CD-Walkman.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Oh, FLAC and Bluetooth...
If you care about audio quality, just don't use Bluetooth, period.
Another reason to use a USB stick if you really want to get the best results.

Eh, both AAC and APTX are good enough for me if I'm not sitting in front of my reference speakers. Honestly for 90% of listening with a decent amount of ambient noise (like in a car), I really don't mind both apple's and Spotify's high quality streams (320kbps?). I can personally barely tell the difference between apple's lossless stream and their AAC format even on decent speakers.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by SpectreRT

The new BRZ has a 3.5mm input jack, so you can technically bring your CD-Walkman.

Oooh yes bring back the hisssssssssssss