Stage 2 Cosworth Kit Preview!!!!

[350matt]

Originally Posted by ciro

This is a very well designed with very high pricing ugh.

its looking like its going to be $6500 same as the HKS setup

so not that bad surely? especially for a PD blower with a good sized inter cooler and a setup that'll support more power once you've built the bottom end

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by qqfob

I'm getting tired of every single thread being over run by price complaints. Someone needs to set you all straight.

First of all Cosworth is a company that has a name, a heritage, and a history. They are a company with over 50 years of high performance research and development competing, and winning, in the best of anything automotive. Their win list surpasses just about every aftermarket BRZ parts makers/manufacturers combined, and more than Subaru and Toyota combined.

Heritage. Pull up to any exoticar car meet, race event, any rallies, and you might get a look or two at your $25k car... until someone notices your Cosworth badge. That guy in the Mclaren, he knows. Heck, he might even buy his own BRZ/FRS because of the Cosworth name. I would.

They have spent countless hours on the developement of all these parts and before anybody even has a chance to purchase anything you kids are shooting them down because of something as petty as their pricing. They don't need to discount anything for your guys because their research and developement doesn't stop at 40hrs/week. Any and all of their parts are run on their engine dyno relentlessly, their parts hitting easily 60k, 120k, even 300k miles on the dyno before rumors of it even spreads. And it doesn't stop with their parts, as you can bet the dyno tuning maps follow the same R&D procedures. I don't know about you, but I rather have a tuning map that isn't programmed in a "rush" 3 hour scenerio. or even 8 hour, 16 hour.

Cosworth currently has a contract with Nameless to produce their exhaust parts. As far as headers go, they are the same. However many of you think Cosworth just rebadged the Nameless items and charge more, but I'm not so sure you can draw that conclusion. Nameless had a different header design prior to the Cosworth collabration, more than likely, Cosworth provided their expertise in the design of the new, or current, Nameless product. From Cosworth, it does cost more but again it comes with the proper tuning.

With that said, I'd appreciate it if this thread is not hijacked by off topic $$ complaints, instead, we can discuss the engineering, eye candy, exclusivity, etc of Cosworth engineered parts.

People not understanding this make me want to get out of the community. it seems everyone wants sbd/zage knockoff parts for this platform.

[qqfob]

I have seen failed Cosworth STi blocks. But everytime i ask myself the same question, are these parts being used correctly. I've seen failed timing gear, poor tuning, and engine over heating, any of which can cause a failure in anything less than a 2jz. Broken cams? when you run spring rates at double or even triple the pressure, expect failure. Someone needs to take the blame.

I never liked the idea of mixing different companies' parts. People tend to think if you put one low rpm component with one high rpm component from a different company, you get the best of both worlds. If I upgrade something as big as an engine, I go with one company. Same with aero and brakes.

If you want to push for max power, expect failure. I highly doubt Cosworth is going for max power in the name of longevity. I would not expect a company like this to and I wouldn't buy their parts if they did have any chance of a engine failure at less than 100k miles. And you can see why Cosworth has chosen this new tuning path of stages, just to make sure nobody jumps the gun on the s/c before proper exhaust mods are made.

One last thing, if you haven't noticed yet, there are essentially two FT86 worlds, and i don't mean BRZ vs FRS, what i mean is...
owners who bought the car because it cost ONLY 25k, and has nothing but complaints because Toyota/Subaru couldn't give them extra power, etc.
or
owners who purchased a 50k car, at a 25k price bargain, with room to spare to make the car however they want.

Tetsuya Tada himself told you the car is not finished. dump your money into it.

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by qqfob

a 50k car, at a 25k price bargain, with room to spare to make the car however they want.

huh, no, just no, please climb down off the horse




I mean i've gone balls deep in mine, rotorex, ap kit, aero, etc, and will go deeper. But at no point do i ever try to make myself feel better about this mental retardation by comparing it to a legitimate 50k bracket car.

Have you even looked at what you can get in the new car market now for 25-30k?

This car is stripped to fuck for the price. You are essentially getting an economy platform with 90s level features at the starting price of a decent vw.

Go try an 18k fit or 21k fiesta st and tell me they don't just annihilate this car in terms of "features". Did you have any idea an 18k car had 2 cameras and a big touchscreen? Me neither, but a fit does now.

Thats said, I want my rwd and don't regret this car, but I hold no illusions about it being something worth jerking off to every waking moment either.

Its a car produced for a given price point with a massive amount of hype attached to it. Its a very good car and makes a great platform to work from, but get the fuck out of here with the 50k talk.

[Decay107]

Well to be fair, this isn't exactly a car you buy for "features". I mean, I didn't even know if the radio worked until about 2 months into my ownership.

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by Decay107

Well to be fair, this isn't exactly a car you buy for "features". I mean, I didn't even know if the radio worked until about 2 months into my ownership.

to be fair I did state i'm here for the rwd and its a great platform to build from, and it has the market locked up on those aspects for its price range.

but to assume its anything more is just ignorance of the current market, its a niche car sold at a premium relative to its overall component level.

Everyone is here for a different reason and thats great, qfob clearly believes in separate water fountains for the unwashed masses without acknowledging that a lot of people with disposable income/assets don't like throwing it away when viable options exist that present far greater value.

Originally Posted by qqfob

Heritage. Pull up to any exoticar car meet, race event, any rallies, and you might get a look or two at your $25k car... until someone notices your Cosworth badge. That guy in the Mclaren, he knows. Heck, he might even buy his own BRZ/FRS because of the Cosworth name. I would.

[qqfob]

I really don't care what most people here can afford or not. I can't afford a supercar, i don't comment on topspeed.com asking them to lower the price on a P1 every chance i get. I don't go in xx s/c or turbo threads and say these's items suck. I just want people to stop commenting "Cosworth price, not worth it" in this thread, x is cheaper. And that was before the price got posted. All I wanted to do is let people know why, Cosworth prices are what it is.

you clearly can afford a 50k car, yet you still chose the 86 for its rwd, well rwd cost money. styling cost money. r&d cost money, and that's what your 25k gets. I prepared myself 25k for what i didn't get, part of which is this, and in the end my 50k car can rival a 50k car. comfort, reliability, speed all including. that is how i see my BRZ.

the rest, like I said, the chief engineer of our cars Tetsuya Tada himself made it well known that the engine, susp, wheels, and brakes, interior, is easy for the owner to improve. the low CG, the aero efficiency, chassis rigidity, etc, can only be engineered at the factory level.

if you feel your s/c that cost half the price and was "engineered" in a few weeks time and tuned in a few hours time, will make that next 6 hour drive, that's fine. i want mine to do round trips of the country then last the life of the car

[Calum]

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by qqfob

I really don't care what most people here can afford or not. I can't afford a supercar, i don't comment on topspeed.com asking them to lower the price on a P1 every chance i get. I don't go in xx s/c or turbo threads and say these's items suck. I just want people to stop commenting "Cosworth price, not worth it" in this thread, x is cheaper. And that was before the price got posted. All I wanted to do is let people know why, Cosworth prices are what it is.

you clearly can afford a 50k car, yet you still chose the 86 for its rwd, well rwd cost money. styling cost money. r&d cost money, and that's what your 25k gets. I prepared myself 25k for what i didn't get, part of which is this, and in the end my 50k car can rival a 50k car. comfort, reliability, speed all including. that is how i see my BRZ.

the rest, like I said, the chief engineer of our cars Tetsuya Tada himself made it well known that the engine, susp, wheels, and brakes, interior, is easy for the owner to improve. the low CG, the aero efficiency, chassis rigidity, etc, can only be engineered at the factory level.

if you feel your s/c that cost half the price and was "engineered" in a few weeks time and tuned in a few hours time, will make that next 6 hour drive, that's fine. i want mine to do round trips of the country then last the life of the car

I chose the 86 because for my needs I can't be seen driving around in a 50k+ car. An lol scion I can use as a work car. Its also fairly practical for the category it fits in.

I hope the cosworth route actually nets the tangible benefits you are seeking for your $ outside of the badge. Unfortunately going off the information available on some of their other offerings of the last decade I'm skeptical at best.

My car on a kraftwerks kit and delicious tune with a "few hours" of engineering and tuning time has survived 20k+ miles, 7 track days and 200+ autox runs since winter. Next year we'll see how much more this "half price" solution is good for.


Good luck sir, may you make all the mclaren owners jealous.

[Plastic Robot]

Here's a really quick look at the supercharger on the Speedhunters car from the Scion Tuners Challenge.

Skip to 1:07

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1expMUIsuGU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1expMUIsuGU[/ame]

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

This car is stripped to fuck for the price. You are essentially getting an economy platform with 90s level features

This statement is just ridiculously over the top and you know it. Nobody is putting a gun to your head preventing your from getting a limited BRZ or limited release Scion. I'd take the features and interior of my 86 over any VW at the same price. VW quality is overrated by miles. Maybe you like plaid.

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by abraxis

This statement is just ridiculous and you know it.

Outside of the bluetooth, usb port and direct injection do you see anything that didn't exist in the 90s?

Federally mandated safety items don't count. And qfort stated 25k, which is not brz limited.



The 18k fit is calling



Don't get me wrong, I like how this car is a "throwback" But carshopping recently looking at current econobox through vw range hatchbacks for the gf it became very clear pretty damn quick how these cars are flat out behind the 8 ball compared to the rest of the market.

Its a very good car, maybe even great. But the deepthroating can stop.

[xwd]

There is a difference between gimmicks and usable features. Lots of cars these days have gimmicky things and overly busy interiors. I don't need a joystick or jog wheels or 70 steering wheel controls, blinking mirrors, etc.

As for the Cosworth kit, yeah you aren't going to find many vendors who are putting their stuff on an engine dyno and the quality looks great. I don't really care about the tuning though, I would never run an off the shelf FI tune on these cars. If they offered it for $500 with no tune it would be a better option.

The Sprintex kit is $4700 with the intercooler from most dealers. The Cosworth right now puts out similar horsepower in their base configuration. What I'd like to see is the path towards their stated 380HP and how much that is going to be...

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

With bluetooth, usb port, touch screen, dual HVAC, heated seats and mirrors, HIDs, DRLSs, in cabin headlight leveler, keyless start, keyless entry, included scheduled maintenance, roadside, high tensile steel chassis, aluminum hood, and direct injection you can see a lot of things that didn't exist in the 90s.

And qfort stated 25k, which people have been quoted and bought at around for a BRZ limited. I know if it mattered that much to me, I wouldn't pay $25k for a base FRS when I could get more options at a similar price point for essentially the same car.

The 18k fit is calling if you like riding in a cheap ass Ford ticking timebomb that feels like driving a water buffalo. First thing I would do is take the money saved and buy a fire extinguisher and save the rest for an actual drivers car where money was actually spent on the actual driving experience rather than sitting in traffic or the parking lot.

Saw the vw range hatchbacks with the gf, it became very clear pretty damn quick how much I like paying north of $25K for plaid seats and mythical VW switchgear that feels like it was made by GM but looks prettier in photos (but not in real life). I only worry about the historically horrible VW fit and build quality user complaints that make Subarus look like a handcrafted Aston Martin. Oh well, I'm just upset that I couldn't get a good deal on the correct model trim I really wanted.

The 86 is a very good car, maybe even great. That's why deepthroating VW and Ford can stop.

FTFU

Btw, backup cameras with screens are about to become mandated federal safety equipment. So those 'features' are moot based on your own argument.

If you want to shave $2K-$3K off the price of a BRZ/FRS, ask them to make it in the USA and take your chances with all that brings.