Drag radial for autocross?

[86Craze]

Is there any sense of getting a drag radial for autocross? (R888R,NT01 and the likes). Can you get them up to temp at autocross speeds?
I just got the gramlights 57cr wheels in 17x9. I have only done autocross until now and have a couple more events in the next couple of months. Eventually I am going to try my hand at HPDE.
I intend on getting RE71R tires for autocross. How do these tires translate into driving on the track?
Will I need yet a different set of tires for the track? Just looking for the best all around performer if possible. If not, recommend a good track tire or critique my autocross tire choice. Thank you.

[strat61caster]

Yes, you can autox an R888R or NT01 but it'd be a bit odd. They would likely do quite well compared to your average tire but I don't think they'd do as well as the RE71R or BFG Rival-S 1.5. The reason it's odd is that they're not competitive tires, the treadwear rating is too low for street class but they're not as sticky as full slicks so they fall in a no-mans land and not many people use them.

The reputation of the RE71R is if you can drive near the limit for a whole lap on track it will overheat and get slidey and wear out prematurely. Track guys basically treat it like a qualifying tire for time trials. If it's your first track day or you don't have a bunch of experience you likely won't get anywhere near driving the car that hard or fast.

I think you're on the money with your last thought, buy a track capable tire and run it everywhere, yes it won't be as grippy autox-ing but it will last and give you experience and seat time which is far more valuable when starting out than experiencing ultimate grip. Also that means you can drive those tires on the street so less time wasted changing wheels before/after events.

Again if you're just starting out, I would totally advise against running the 17x9, low grip teaches you things at lower stakes and you'll have a better understanding of car control before stepping up the grip levels. Stock wheels and tires hold up to a lot of abuse and people dump their OE tires for cheap if you managed to wear yours out or if someone put crap tires on the car you bought used.

But hey, you do you, I'd suggest a ~300TW track-capable tire to start out with, Michelin Pilot Super Sports and Continental Extremecontact Sport are the leaders on that front but to save a few bucks you could do Firestone Indy 500 or Sumitomo HTR ZIII or some other tire I've forgotten like a Bridgestone Potenza something (RE-11 is still available but that's an old outdated tire).

Stickier tires would be BFG Rival (non-S), Hankook RS4 (or RS3 if some are still available), Dunlop Direzza ZIISS, Maxxis Victra VR1, etc. etc.

This is good info too:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25485

Go to Tirerack and put in tire size 245-40-17 and take a look at your summer tire options and you can back check here, although I think I mentioned all the common trackable tires people usually use...

[86Craze]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Yes, you can autox an R888R or NT01 but it'd be a bit odd. They would likely do quite well compared to your average tire but I don't think they'd do as well as the RE71R or BFG Rival-S 1.5. The reason it's odd is that they're not competitive tires, the treadwear rating is too low for street class but they're not as sticky as full slicks so they fall in a no-mans land and not many people use them.

The reputation of the RE71R is if you can drive near the limit for a whole lap on track it will overheat and get slidey and wear out prematurely. Track guys basically treat it like a qualifying tire for time trials. If it's your first track day or you don't have a bunch of experience you likely won't get anywhere near driving the car that hard or fast.

I think you're on the money with your last thought, buy a track capable tire and run it everywhere, yes it won't be as grippy autox-ing but it will last and give you experience and seat time which is far more valuable when starting out than experiencing ultimate grip. Also that means you can drive those tires on the street so less time wasted changing wheels before/after events.

Again if you're just starting out, I would totally advise against running the 17x9, low grip teaches you things at lower stakes and you'll have a better understanding of car control before stepping up the grip levels. Stock wheels and tires hold up to a lot of abuse and people dump their OE tires for cheap if you managed to wear yours out or if someone put crap tires on the car you bought used.

But hey, you do you, I'd suggest a ~300TW track-capable tire to start out with, Michelin Pilot Super Sports and Continental Extremecontact Sport are the leaders on that front but to save a few bucks you could do Firestone Indy 500 or Sumitomo HTR ZIII or some other tire I've forgotten like a Bridgestone Potenza something (RE-11 is still available but that's an old outdated tire).

Stickier tires would be BFG Rival (non-S), Hankook RS4 (or RS3 if some are still available), Dunlop Direzza ZIISS, Maxxis Victra VR1, etc. etc.

This is good info too:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25485

Go to Tirerack and put in tire size 245-40-17 and take a look at your summer tire options and you can back check here, although I think I mentioned all the common trackable tires people usually use...

Thank you for your response.
I completely agree about getting acquainted with the car on a low traction setup. The first few autocross events I did were on stock power, running factory michelins. I had traction issues to say the least, but it was fun and manageable. I have doubled the power of the car and I think the car could really benefit from a wider tire on a wider wheel.

Some of the tires you mentioned are also 200 wear rating much like the RE71R.
I am going to keep doing some research over the next day or two. I think I will end up with a 200 tread wear tire for autocross and eventually something as close to a slick as I can get in a 215/225 on my factory 7" wheel. I think that makes the most sense for me, I will be able to drive to the track on a street tire and swap out for slicks at the track as opposed to getting a very track oriented tire that cant handle rain, etc.

I also have future plans of converting to E85 and increasing the power to around 400 wheel horsepower. I think the 9 inch wheel will never be useless to me.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by 86Craze

Some of the tires you mentioned are also 200 wear rating much like the RE71R.

Treadwear ratings tell you nothing about how the tire reacts to the sustained heat of track duty or how quickly it ramps up to maximum grip from ambient temperatures on an autocross run. For instance the BF Goodrich Rival comes in two options, "S" and "non-S" with the S being designed as a softer compound for autox and the non-S being made for track day usage, they both are rated at 200TW. (Although according to TireRack it looks like the Rivals are being phased out...)

The 200TW tires I list are specifically designed to handle sustained lapping with great wear properties. The ZIISS and RS-4/3 for instance are favorites of endurance racers and casual track enthusiasts alike. They are also very streetable in warm climates (aside from some noise and don't expect to get 30k street miles out of them). The Maxxis was designed specifically to compete against the Z2SS

I DD'd ZIISS in stock size for 20k miles and 4x track days and many autocrosses, not the fastest tire after awhile but it held up to a lot of abuse.

I can see the sense in DD'ing the RE71R and having racing slicks in your climate, don't expect the RE71R to last past 10k street miles or one consistent season of autox (~150 runs is the consensus for when they're worn out).

Best of luck.

[14stu]

I run RE71r's for both trackdays and autox. In our light cars, they don't overheat unless you really overdrive them (I'm in Texas and can consistently put down my fastest laps at the end of a 20min session).

Drag radials have soft sidewalls and aren't good for autocross, they just flop all over the place and are useless.

Get a set of wheels and tires for daily driving, and another set with the RE71r's for both autox and track (keep the street miles to under 1-2k if you can).

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by 14stu

Drag radials have soft sidewalls and aren't good for autocross, they just flop all over the place and are useless.

This. You're asking if it is a good idea to use a tire designed to deform at launch, and generally grip in a straight line for a sport that nearly entirely consists of using lateral grip to corner. That's like eating soup with a spork. Sure you can sort of do it but its a waste of time/effort/money. Just use a fucking spoon.

[Icecreamtruk]

I think he just got mixed up on the name, because none of the tires he talked about are actual drag radials. Maybe he meant radial slicks? (or semi-slicks in this case).

Anyways, I have used the followed tires until they die on a track: Michelin Primacy, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Nitto NT01, Maxxis RC1, Hankook RS4. So I can comment on those.

I think you went the power route too early, but to each his own, so here's what it is. RS4, NT01 et RC1 are all too slow to heat to be of any use in autocross. The fastest heating tire of the bunch is the RS4, and it still takes half a lap to a full lap depending on track length and configuration, which ranges from 40-60secs. Your autocross would be over by the time they are really gripping. The RC1 have more cold grip out of the bunch, but still nowhere near the level of RE71R (or so I've been told, I will try these next year for quali).

Skip street tires if you want any kind of life or performance out of them, you have a lot of power for them to hold up to track usage, and autocross will still kill them easily.

In your situation, I would go for two sets of tires, RS4 for the track, and RE71R for autocross. If you have only 1 set of wide wheels, use them for the RE71R and put the track tires on the stock wheels, less than ideal but you seem more focused on autox than track performance (in auto, wider is always better).

[86Craze]

Thank you for your feedbacks. I may have had my terminology wrong in the first post.
Based on everything I have read and your comments, I am putting RE71Rs on my 9" wheels for autocross and a slick on my factory 7" wheel.